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Offline skarr  
#1 Posted : 07 December 2016 18:28:20(UTC)
skarr


Posts: 7

Hey guys

I've had the most horrific experience dealing with Renault UK "technical" and my local dealership.

I bought a 2016 Clio 220 Trophy brand new and it ran like a dream. After a few weeks, I noticed a slipping/grinding sound coming from the gearbox. It happens almost 100% of the time under specific circumstances. I will upload a video as soon as I get my car back (VERY long story).

1) Be in auto mode, normal or sport
2) Be travelling up a hill at around 10 mph
3) Dont accelerate over a speedbump so your speed slows to around 7mph, this will change you down to 1st
4) Immediately accelerate moderately back over 10mph and the car changes to 2nd
5) This produces a slipping/grinding noise almost every time, 99.9%, as if you've lost traction, but you never do.

Now the car never did this from new, has been in to the dealer several times. I bought the car around May 2016 and had it in the dealers 3 times for the same thing. They've now had it for nearly 2 months since May and have just contacted me to say they've found one other in Liverpool that does the same thing, therefore its normal behaviour and won't be repairing it under warranty.

I explained that they haven't proved it's normal behaviour, but they've found a second car with the problem, no luck, brick wall.

So, anyone who has a 2016 Clio 220 Trophy, please please please, can you video your car doing the above and tell me if you (a) have the same issue, and (b) if you don't, please video from inside, focusing on the speedo and gear number showing it NOT replicating this.

I've been through the local dealer, Renault UK "technical" and Renault UK Customer Support and all refuse to accept a slipping/grinding noise that wasn't present at delivery is normal.

Thanks and much appreciated. Please help me redeem what was meant to be a time to rejoice and not a time to despair.

Thx
Offline MrVix  
#2 Posted : 07 December 2016 18:40:57(UTC)
MrVix


Posts: 4,024
Location: Obsequious Henchman from the Renaultsport Forum.

Surely your best route is to get an independent engineers report and put it in the hands of your solicitor.
Offline skarr  
#3 Posted : 07 December 2016 21:40:56(UTC)
skarr


Posts: 7

Originally Posted by: MrVix Go to Quoted Post
Surely your best route is to get an independent engineers report and put it in the hands of your solicitor.


THanks MrVix, I would be doing that, except they have my car in pieces allegedly "troubleshooting". I will be going to the motor trader ombudsman. Anyone have their details?

But was also hoping to gather evidence that a gearbox is not meant to make those kinds of noises as what they termed, normal behaviour.

It's so frustrating as I've always loved how the top of the range Renaults handle and how much fun they are to drive, only to be massively let down by my first warranty claim, and in a very negative way.
Offline Steve-O  
#4 Posted : 08 December 2016 07:41:13(UTC)
Steve-O


Posts: 71

Any grinding of the gearbox is not normal. They are taking the piss!

Mine does Not grind in any gear in any conditions. Surely they have access to another car to compare? To be honest it doesn't take a genius to work that out though!

Trim squeaks and noises. They appear to be normal. They seem to have come out the woodwork only after 7k! Not happy.
Offline sunnylunn  
#5 Posted : 08 December 2016 07:56:29(UTC)
sunnylunn


Posts: 791
Location: Renault owner 😀

have they got a demo you could go out in to compare?
Offline titian  
#6 Posted : 08 December 2016 08:10:09(UTC)
titian


Posts: 234

No grinding from mine either
Offline czechplastik  
#7 Posted : 08 December 2016 09:48:57(UTC)
czechplastik


Posts: 186

Mine judders badly at 8-10mph in second gear. Known fault without a fix yet apparently.
Offline del115  
#8 Posted : 08 December 2016 15:11:25(UTC)
del115


Posts: 1,208
Location: West Wales

Just tried your 'speed hump' test as close as I could a couple of times.

No slipping or grinding - car changed up into 2nd at around 14mph on all occasions.

Also ran 15 miles without the radio and am pleased to report that no rattles, squeaks or other noises were heard.

Offline Stuntedgrowth  
#9 Posted : 08 December 2016 20:31:10(UTC)
Stuntedgrowth


Posts: 32

I can honestly say mine does not make any noises / slipping or grinding, if it did I would be doing exactly the same as you. Don't back down...
Offline titian  
#10 Posted : 08 December 2016 20:49:07(UTC)
titian


Posts: 234

I tried the speed bump as well, no problems
Offline Fraser  
#11 Posted : 08 December 2016 22:01:27(UTC)
Fraser


Posts: 35

Originally Posted by: skarr Go to Quoted Post
Hey guys

I've had the most horrific experience dealing with Renault UK "technical" and my local dealership.

I bought a 2016 Clio 220 Trophy brand new and it ran like a dream. After a few weeks, I noticed a slipping/grinding sound coming from the gearbox. It happens almost 100% of the time under specific circumstances. I will upload a video as soon as I get my car back (VERY long story).

1) Be in auto mode, normal or sport
2) Be travelling up a hill at around 10 mph
3) Dont accelerate over a speedbump so your speed slows to around 7mph, this will change you down to 1st
4) Immediately accelerate moderately back over 10mph and the car changes to 2nd
5) This produces a slipping/grinding noise almost every time, 99.9%, as if you've lost traction, but you never do.

Now the car never did this from new, has been in to the dealer several times. I bought the car around May 2016 and had it in the dealers 3 times for the same thing. They've now had it for nearly 2 months since May and have just contacted me to say they've found one other in Liverpool that does the same thing, therefore its normal behaviour and won't be repairing it under warranty.

I explained that they haven't proved it's normal behaviour, but they've found a second car with the problem, no luck, brick wall.

So, anyone who has a 2016 Clio 220 Trophy, please please please, can you video your car doing the above and tell me if you (a) have the same issue, and (b) if you don't, please video from inside, focusing on the speedo and gear number showing it NOT replicating this.

I've been through the local dealer, Renault UK "technical" and Renault UK Customer Support and all refuse to accept a slipping/grinding noise that wasn't present at delivery is normal.

Thanks and much appreciated. Please help me redeem what was meant to be a time to rejoice and not a time to despair.

Thx



I will test it in the morning, but I am slightly struggling to see the significance of both the hill AND the speed bump?

I'm assuming the hill is causing increased engine/gearbox strain so I can see how that would affect it, however just so I manage to replicate your situation with video, any idea what conditions the speed bump is causing (e.g. physical jolt, or just further increased engine strain) that causes the noise ? Or does just decelerating and allowing it to change down cause it too

Edited by user 08 December 2016 22:05:48(UTC)  | Reason: Not specified

Offline Womble  
#12 Posted : 09 December 2016 15:54:23(UTC)
Womble


Posts: 542

You get good dealers and bad dealers, what I would say is post up your location and someone will give you a recommendation on who to deal with, there are a couple of people on here that should be able to help and guide you, I know the frustration a bad dealer can cause, especially having your car for 2 months in bits. I hope admin come along and help, as customer service on a whole does seem to be getting there and there is now a Renaultsport network of dealers whose mission is to get the brand back on top.
Offline skarr  
#13 Posted : 12 December 2016 22:15:43(UTC)
skarr


Posts: 7

Originally Posted by: Steve-O Go to Quoted Post
Any grinding of the gearbox is not normal. They are taking the piss!

Mine does Not grind in any gear in any conditions. Surely they have access to another car to compare? To be honest it doesn't take a genius to work that out though!

Trim squeaks and noises. They appear to be normal. They seem to have come out the woodwork only after 7k! Not happy.


Yes, Steve-O, completely agree! Yes, they evaluated it against a "like-for-like model" - their words - and it did the same thing, so they deemed this normal behaviour!!!!!

Even though I tried to explain that taking a subset of 2 cars doesn't guarantee normal behaviour and just means they've found another car with the same issue. They still weren't having it.

I am trying to gather evidence that a slipping/grinding gearbox is NOT normal, but I have to have video and audio evidence from other 220 Trophy owners. I should take delivery of mine tomorrow, meaning I can record and upload the video and audio, but need the help of other owners. Given they are a fairly rare car, trying to get others to help me, and uncover what seems to be a manufacturing flaw is proving challenging.

Originally Posted by: sunnylunn Go to Quoted Post
have they got a demo you could go out in to compare?


Unfortunately I live on the Isle of Man so they always have an extremely limited stock of anything, let alone another 220 Trophy. Also, see above, they've found another that slips/grinds and now claim if another does it, then it must be normal.

Originally Posted by: titian Go to Quoted Post
No grinding from mine either


Thanks Titan, please please please can you record it doing exactly what I said? The more evidence the better, and the poor sod who buys the Liverpool one will thank you too! Can you believe they are happy to sell it to someone!!!

Originally Posted by: czechplastik Go to Quoted Post
Mine judders badly at 8-10mph in second gear. Known fault without a fix yet apparently.


czechplastik - Yeah I heard about this defect, initially they tried to pass it off as such, but I've owned cars with stage 2 racing clutches so no stranger to judder, I sincerely hope yours isn't a prequel to what mine has.

Originally Posted by: del115 Go to Quoted Post
Just tried your 'speed hump' test as close as I could a couple of times.

No slipping or grinding - car changed up into 2nd at around 14mph on all occasions.


That's great news del115. As above, please please please, please record it on your phone and upload it to Youtube or email me a link so I can add it to the evidence pile. There are more people who they are willingly selling this kind of gearbox to and it can't be right!

Originally Posted by: Stuntedgrowth Go to Quoted Post
I can honestly say mine does not make any noises / slipping or grinding, if it did I would be doing exactly the same as you. Don't back down...


Thanks StuntedGrowth. As above, please replicate and record it, it's important to replicate exactly so we can force them to admit the fault and fix all that are broken.

Originally Posted by: Fraser Go to Quoted Post
I will test it in the morning, but I am slightly struggling to see the significance of both the hill AND the speed bump?

I'm assuming the hill is causing increased engine/gearbox strain so I can see how that would affect it, however just so I manage to replicate your situation with video, any idea what conditions the speed bump is causing (e.g. physical jolt, or just further increased engine strain) that causes the noise ? Or does just decelerating and allowing it to change down cause it too


Hey Fraser, the hill and the speed bump force the gearbox at that speed to change down from 2nd to 1st in automatic mode, then the acceleration over and out of the speed bump, while going up the hill force the box to change back into second. This 2nd > 1st > 2nd causes the slipping/grinding 99.9% of the time, it's even worse when it's cold.

Hope that helps?

Originally Posted by: Womble Go to Quoted Post
You get good dealers and bad dealers, what I would say is post up your location and someone will give you a recommendation on who to deal with, there are a couple of people on here that should be able to help and guide you, I know the frustration a bad dealer can cause, especially having your car for 2 months in bits. I hope admin come along and help, as customer service on a whole does seem to be getting there and there is now a Renaultsport network of dealers whose mission is to get the brand back on top.


Thanks for the reply Womble, the dealer bizarrely has been fairly blameless, as they've had their hands tied. It's Renault UK that have officially delivered the verdict that the slipping/grinding of the gearbox is normal for our model.

Raising it here isn't a direct attack on Renault itself, but this is clearly the highest concentration of 220 Trophy owners, as we all love our cars, and given that I've been fighting with the dealers and main brand HQ for nearly a third of my total ownership, it has nearly completely ruined the experience. BUT, I remain hopeful that as a community people out there can help me, and we can get this fixed!!

Thanks everyone and keep it coming, the more evidence you guys can help me with, the better.
Offline Steve-O  
#14 Posted : 12 December 2016 22:48:44(UTC)
Steve-O


Posts: 71

It's embarrassing that they are saying the grinding is Normal.

No it is not! If I went into a dealer for a test drive and heard that I would run a mile. I bet the press release cars didn't do it either.

To me it sounds like something is out of tolerance or some adjustments are required. I thought they could upload data to Renault/getrag and get them to knock up a bespoke gearbox map that takes your own gearboxes state into account? Or am I giving them too much credit?

I'll see if I can get a video but I do motorway then London traffic.
Offline flitch  
#15 Posted : 13 December 2016 11:18:39(UTC)
flitch


Posts: 90

My 220 Trophy does not do this, but I recently had a clio 1.5 diesel loan car with EDC that did something similar.

Nothing to do with speed humps, but if you pulled away in first then kept the speed pretty constant you would get a vibration / roughness before it changed into second. Definitely not a mechanical grinding though.

I think this scenario corresponds with the clutches slipping so to blend the gear changes.

If you accelerate briskly it's not noticeable.

Therefore, I don't think it's a balance issue, but related to the operation of the clutch packs.
The bandwidth of the control loop for these will be about 20Hz. This is remarkably close to the vibration frequency.
So I think this is simply the control loop adjusting the clutch position to try and stabilise the operating point. This will be influenced by lots of things, including manufacturing tolerances, but basically it's a feature.

Improved SW might disguise it.

Cheers Pete
CL10 TRY
Offline Marc_250  
#16 Posted : 13 December 2016 20:45:04(UTC)
Marc_250


Posts: 4,527

@skarr

You're asking everyone to video their cars etc why not do the same and let us in on this grinding.
Offline skarr  
#17 Posted : 14 December 2016 11:32:41(UTC)
skarr


Posts: 7

Originally Posted by: flitch Go to Quoted Post
My 220 Trophy does not do this, but I recently had a clio 1.5 diesel loan car with EDC that did something similar.

Nothing to do with speed humps, but if you pulled away in first then kept the speed pretty constant you would get a vibration / roughness before it changed into second. Definitely not a mechanical grinding though.

I think this scenario corresponds with the clutches slipping so to blend the gear changes.

If you accelerate briskly it's not noticeable.

Therefore, I don't think it's a balance issue, but related to the operation of the clutch packs.
The bandwidth of the control loop for these will be about 20Hz. This is remarkably close to the vibration frequency.
So I think this is simply the control loop adjusting the clutch position to try and stabilise the operating point. This will be influenced by lots of things, including manufacturing tolerances, but basically it's a feature.

Improved SW might disguise it.

Cheers Pete
CL10 TRY


Thanks for the reply flitch. Yeah it's hard to differentiate a grinding and slipping noise coming from the gearbox, as I am no expert, hence the references to both (slipping/grinding) noises. This noise in mine happens when the car is forced to change from 2nd > 1st > 2nd, the speedbump is just there as I don't aggressively go over bumps and always slow down, this forces the auto box to change down. Accelerating the car in any fashion reproduces the noise, whether gentle or more aggressively. It never did it when I first got the car, and only started doing it some weeks later, hence why I think it's a fault that needs adjusting/fixing rather than a "design feature" haha.


Originally Posted by: Marc_250 Go to Quoted Post
@skarr

You're asking everyone to video their cars etc why not do the same and let us in on this grinding.


Thanks for the reply Marc_250, as mentioned a few times before I definitely will be when the car gets returned to me. I was told I would be getting it back yesterday after they reassembled it, but have yet to hear back from the dealer. As soon as I have it back, I will record and upload the noise.

It would be interesting to see who is going to buy the Liverpool car that they tested as a "litmus test" which also has the noise and see their take on it. I hope they test drive the car over a speed bump, and then lets see how the salesman pitches it :(
Offline Suicida1 Zombie  
#18 Posted : 16 December 2016 05:44:11(UTC)
Suicida1 Zombie


Posts: 53

A bit off topic put I find that when in sport and race mode in my 220 trophy if I change down or the car auto changes due to pretty sharp deceleration into 1st gear and then I try and get back on the gas I sometimes get a loud 'Parp!' (Think extended gear change parp, like doing a launch control launch but louder) and no power at all for up to about 2/3 of a second.

I imagine its due to the driving (On the brakes then onto the gas very quickly) confuses the box but I would have thought the box would not have that much of a delay....
Offline shocker  
#19 Posted : 17 December 2016 01:53:30(UTC)
shocker


Posts: 412

I get the change gear parping now and again
I say the car is farting
Yea it does cause problems as the car tries to slow down suddenly and then the gearbox farts about for about 3 or 4 seconds before it finds a gear and then takes of like a rocket
Yea it sounds good but on track it looses you time and on the road the guy behind you runs up your ass and then gives you the finger for farting about at a junction or coming out of a corner very slowly
To me this is slightly dangerous
But hay Renault says this is normal
As for the gearbox grinding crunching I get that on a hill start situation
Yes it sounds horrendous but it's only now and again
Try jacking the front of your car up and then rotate the front wheel back and forward
The play in the clutch and the noise of everything clattering is horrendous
I've resorted to just leaving the car parked up now as it annoys me so much
Some say this is normal and say nothing wrong with their car and that I am just fussy
Personally I think the Clio is rubbish and cheaply thrown together

Now I have driven a Megane trophy r. And that is a different car and well put together
So not bashing renaults all the time as some think I am

Offline MrVix  
#20 Posted : 17 December 2016 07:22:28(UTC)
MrVix


Posts: 4,024
Location: Obsequious Henchman from the Renaultsport Forum.

Originally Posted by: shocker Go to Quoted Post
I get the change gear parping now and again
I say the car is farting
Yea it does cause problems as the car tries to slow down suddenly and then the gearbox farts about for about 3 or 4 seconds before it finds a gear and then takes of like a rocket
Yea it sounds good but on track it looses you time and on the road the guy behind you runs up your ass and then gives you the finger for farting about at a junction or coming out of a corner very slowly
To me this is slightly dangerous
But hay Renault says this is normal
As for the gearbox grinding crunching I get that on a hill start situation
Yes it sounds horrendous but it's only now and again
Try jacking the front of your car up and then rotate the front wheel back and forward
The play in the clutch and the noise of everything clattering is horrendous
I've resorted to just leaving the car parked up now as it annoys me so much
Some say this is normal and say nothing wrong with their car and that I am just fussy
Personally I think the Clio is rubbish and cheaply thrown together

Now I have driven a Megane trophy r. And that is a different car and well put together
So not bashing renaults all the time as some think I am



How dare you say anything negative about the Clio you naughty man, we all have to bow down at the sacred altar of the 'flappy Clio' here you knowWink

Offline sunnylunn  
#21 Posted : 17 December 2016 08:47:35(UTC)
sunnylunn


Posts: 791
Location: Renault owner 😀

he doesn't need to say anything negative with you around😀
Offline FramerateUK  
#22 Posted : 19 December 2016 10:51:32(UTC)
FramerateUK


Posts: 126
Location: Cardiff

Originally Posted by: shocker Go to Quoted Post

Yea it does cause problems as the car tries to slow down suddenly and then the gearbox farts about for about 3 or 4 seconds before it finds a gear and then takes of like a rocket




The only issue I get is occasionally off roundabouts, if I approach, let off throttle to let a car pass, and then go back on throttle to get out, realise the next car approaching is faster than expected, and then apply more throttle to get out in time, the car does end up changing it's mind over the gear (ie, goes from 3rd, to 2nd then 1st) and you end up bogging down while it changes it's mind.

This is only and issue in normal/auto. Sports holds onto gears long enough that it doesn't happen, and if you're willing to push the pedal a bit more in normal it tends not to happen either - I think part of it is just getting used to an auto after using a manual for years. I tend to stick the car into sport before roundabouts to avoid it happening.
Offline Fraser  
#23 Posted : 19 December 2016 15:19:12(UTC)
Fraser


Posts: 35

Here is my attempt to recreate the noises, up a hill and on the flat.
The audio isn't fantastic but if there were any noises you'd be able to here them, and I can confirm there was nothing.

Offline sunnylunn  
#24 Posted : 19 December 2016 15:34:43(UTC)
sunnylunn


Posts: 791
Location: Renault owner 😀

I've had a go at replicating the same, but mine is silent, hope you get it sorted bud as its obviously not right.
Offline probecomp  
#25 Posted : 19 December 2016 17:45:26(UTC)
probecomp


Posts: 802

Originally Posted by: Fraser Go to Quoted Post
Here is my attempt to recreate the noises, up a hill and on the flat.
The audio isn't fantastic but if there were any noises you'd be able to here them, and I can confirm there was nothing.



I can confirm, no strange noises Smile

Now for the original poster (if he has his car back)...?
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