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Offline Colm_ire  
#1 Posted : 18 February 2019 12:19:31(UTC)
Colm_ire


Posts: 20


So the new ST is launched. Looks well, although the Megane R.S is better looking in my opinion (entirely subjective)

The Megane has a manual handbrake in the manual transmission car, which i prefer, the ST is auto parking brake only.

However, the Ford offers the option of adding a limited slip diff and adaptive dampers. If you want the traction the LSD provides, Renault only allow you have stiff 'Cup'chassis..... and if you more comfort with the 'sport' chassis, Renault won't allow you have the limited slip diff. Bonkers thinking in 2019.

Renault are still thinking like it's the noughties, times have moved on, adaptive dampers and limited slip diffs can be specced on the Hyundai i30n, new Focus ST, Golf GTi, Civic Type R, Leon Cupra etc...

The owner should be able to chose the comfort/stiffness of the ride they wish to have, e.g. backroad blast or track day or daily with passengers etc.... unless you think like Renault of course, where the owner should make the choice on purchase and be stuck with it!!!!

Such a shame given the looks of the Megane that Renault chose not to allow customers configure their own cars to suit the customers needs, not what was easier for Renault.

Watch the ST outsell it dramatically....
Offline Kirsty172  
#2 Posted : 18 February 2019 12:27:58(UTC)
Kirsty172


Posts: 4,930

It sounds like the Renault is not for you.

Enjoy the Ford with its Fiesta interior and dreadful customer service. For 30k.
Offline Colm_ire  
#3 Posted : 18 February 2019 12:36:36(UTC)
Colm_ire


Posts: 20

Originally Posted by: Kirsty172 Go to Quoted Post
It sounds like the Renault is not for you.

Enjoy the Ford with its Fiesta interior and dreadful customer service. For 30k.


oh dear, Renault interior quality and customer service are never things to be comparing!!!!

Like i said, Renault are stuck in the noughties, such a missed opportunity

Edited by user 18 February 2019 12:37:54(UTC)  | Reason: Not specified

Offline Kieranidus  
#4 Posted : 18 February 2019 12:41:06(UTC)
Kieranidus


Posts: 58

i agree with kirsty172, if you think that then renault aint for you. Thing is renault megane does have adaptive dampers. comfort, sports, race etc. Its not a big deal, im getting the trophy and it has everything i ever want for a car, plus the odd in a while track day 😎
Offline Colm_ire  
#5 Posted : 18 February 2019 13:57:17(UTC)
Colm_ire


Posts: 20

Originally Posted by: Kieranidus Go to Quoted Post
i agree with kirsty172, if you think that then renault aint for you. Thing is renault megane does have adaptive dampers. comfort, sports, race etc. Its not a big deal, im getting the trophy and it has everything i ever want for a car, plus the odd in a while track day 😎


Great for you Kieran, I hope it's brilliant for you, genuinely. I think it looks fantastic.

Still doesn't change my view that wanting the LSD which requires a stiff Cup chassis everyday is old hat from Renault when most other manufacturers can provide adjustable dampers as an option, regardless of LSD.

By the way, this statement is not accurate Thing is renault megane does have adaptive dampers. comfort, sports, race etc. Changing mode in a megane R.S does not alter ride quality. (sadly)

Edited by user 18 February 2019 13:59:29(UTC)  | Reason: Not specified

Offline MrRS  
#6 Posted : 18 February 2019 15:07:30(UTC)
MrRS


Posts: 43

Looks like a good package with plenty of options. Like the adaptive damping, diff, auto option and the 2.3 engine should be an easy tune to 350 bhp. Ford have chucked lots of stuff at it to keep everyone happy. Wonder if the pricing will be the icing on the cake.
Offline Buffalo Girls  
#7 Posted : 18 February 2019 16:20:58(UTC)
Buffalo Girls


Posts: 1,815

Originally Posted by: Colm_ire Go to Quoted Post

So the new ST is launched. Looks well, although the Megane R.S is better looking in my opinion (entirely subjective)

The Megane has a manual handbrake in the manual transmission car, which i prefer, the ST is auto parking brake only.

However, the Ford offers the option of adding a limited slip diff and adaptive dampers. If you want the traction the LSD provides, Renault only allow you have stiff 'Cup'chassis..... and if you more comfort with the 'sport' chassis, Renault won't allow you have the limited slip diff. Bonkers thinking in 2019.

Renault are still thinking like it's the noughties, times have moved on, adaptive dampers and limited slip diffs can be specced on the Hyundai i30n, new Focus ST, Golf GTi, Civic Type R, Leon Cupra etc...

The owner should be able to chose the comfort/stiffness of the ride they wish to have, e.g. backroad blast or track day or daily with passengers etc.... unless you think like Renault of course, where the owner should make the choice on purchase and be stuck with it!!!!

Such a shame given the looks of the Megane that Renault chose not to allow customers configure their own cars to suit the customers needs, not what was easier for Renault.

Watch the ST outsell it dramatically....


The Focus LSD is an “electronic” diff. If you think that’s the same as the mechanical diff on the Megane, you’re very much mistaken.

Offline Georgeski  
#8 Posted : 18 February 2019 18:05:05(UTC)
Georgeski


Posts: 4,553

It is a mechanical diff that is electronically controlled. It is not torque vectoring.
Offline Kirsty172  
#9 Posted : 18 February 2019 18:06:18(UTC)
Kirsty172


Posts: 4,930

Originally Posted by: Colm_ire Go to Quoted Post
Originally Posted by: Kieranidus Go to Quoted Post
i agree with kirsty172, if you think that then renault aint for you. Thing is renault megane does have adaptive dampers. comfort, sports, race etc. Its not a big deal, im getting the trophy and it has everything i ever want for a car, plus the odd in a while track day 😎


Great for you Kieran, I hope it's brilliant for you, genuinely. I think it looks fantastic.

Still doesn't change my view that wanting the LSD which requires a stiff Cup chassis everyday is old hat from Renault when most other manufacturers can provide adjustable dampers as an option, regardless of LSD.

By the way, this statement is not accurate Thing is renault megane does have adaptive dampers. comfort, sports, race etc. Changing mode in a megane R.S does not alter ride quality. (sadly)


i'd suggest if those things are important to you, and you want a proper hot hatch, buy an FK8 civic type r. it is much, much, much better than a focus ST will ever be. and not much more to pay for it too.
Offline MrRS  
#10 Posted : 18 February 2019 18:24:56(UTC)
MrRS


Posts: 43

Originally Posted by: Kirsty172 Go to Quoted Post
Originally Posted by: Colm_ire Go to Quoted Post
Originally Posted by: Kieranidus Go to Quoted Post
i agree with kirsty172, if you think that then renault aint for you. Thing is renault megane does have adaptive dampers. comfort, sports, race etc. Its not a big deal, im getting the trophy and it has everything i ever want for a car, plus the odd in a while track day 😎


Great for you Kieran, I hope it's brilliant for you, genuinely. I think it looks fantastic.

Still doesn't change my view that wanting the LSD which requires a stiff Cup chassis everyday is old hat from Renault when most other manufacturers can provide adjustable dampers as an option, regardless of LSD.

By the way, this statement is not accurate Thing is renault megane does have adaptive dampers. comfort, sports, race etc. Changing mode in a megane R.S does not alter ride quality. (sadly)


i'd suggest if those things are important to you, and you want a proper hot hatch, buy an FK8 civic type r. it is much, much, much better than a focus ST will ever be. and not much more to pay for it too.


I’d also suggest you need to see how the Ford is priced and actually performs in the real world first.

Offline Kieranidus  
#11 Posted : 18 February 2019 19:01:28(UTC)
Kieranidus


Posts: 58

Thing is the megane rs has something better then adaptive dampers! Renault’s conclusion was that it could achieve better dynamic performance by combining a good, well-tuned passive damper with a hydraulic bump stop than by spending the equivalent on an adaptive damper which you get in all rally cars and we all know how much those dampers go through in rallys.
Offline CraigI  
#12 Posted : 18 February 2019 19:24:01(UTC)
CraigI


Posts: 961

I’ve had adaptive dampers on various S and RS Audi’s and found all of those set ups to be a jack of all trades, master of none.

To the OP, sounds like you’ve made your mind up. Some people prefer a less focussed product than Renaultsport often provide. You aren’t wrong, just make sure you test drive all of the softer variants to make sure you get the right one - sounds like you know what it is you are after, but you could easily get it wrong in this sector.

I had a Focus ST-3 once. Didn’t gel with it at all despite the 2.5.
Why not start a thread about your Focus ST buying experience?
Offline CraigI  
#13 Posted : 18 February 2019 19:30:01(UTC)
CraigI


Posts: 961

Just saw the pictures.
Very Mazda like.
Offline Marc_250  
#14 Posted : 18 February 2019 21:16:32(UTC)
Marc_250


Posts: 5,115

I'm sure it'll tread that hot hatch middle ground perfectly and sell like hotcakes.
Offline Kirsty172  
#15 Posted : 18 February 2019 22:21:49(UTC)
Kirsty172


Posts: 4,930

Originally Posted by: MrRS Go to Quoted Post
Originally Posted by: Kirsty172 Go to Quoted Post
Originally Posted by: Colm_ire Go to Quoted Post
Originally Posted by: Kieranidus Go to Quoted Post
i agree with kirsty172, if you think that then renault aint for you. Thing is renault megane does have adaptive dampers. comfort, sports, race etc. Its not a big deal, im getting the trophy and it has everything i ever want for a car, plus the odd in a while track day 😎


Great for you Kieran, I hope it's brilliant for you, genuinely. I think it looks fantastic.

Still doesn't change my view that wanting the LSD which requires a stiff Cup chassis everyday is old hat from Renault when most other manufacturers can provide adjustable dampers as an option, regardless of LSD.

By the way, this statement is not accurate Thing is renault megane does have adaptive dampers. comfort, sports, race etc. Changing mode in a megane R.S does not alter ride quality. (sadly)


i'd suggest if those things are important to you, and you want a proper hot hatch, buy an FK8 civic type r. it is much, much, much better than a focus ST will ever be. and not much more to pay for it too.


I’d also suggest you need to see how the Ford is priced and actually performs in the real world first.



i'm pretty sure it won't cost less than an i30n.

and i've just managed to price up a fiesta st3 with a few 'nice' options and got it to 25.5k.

and brexit is coming, so they won't want to catch a cold on that as they're all built in saarlouis.

hence 30k i'm confident.

it'll drive good, of course it will. your money, buy what makes you the most happy.
Offline sunnylunn  
#16 Posted : 19 February 2019 11:03:54(UTC)
sunnylunn


Posts: 884
Location: Renault owner 😀

Some good cars at that price point, the Ford will no doubt be offered with great finance/pcp deals, which will swing things their way regardless of how it drives. It does look decent with some nice options, I'd still prefer a Megane over one.
Offline Colm_ire  
#17 Posted : 19 February 2019 11:47:31(UTC)
Colm_ire


Posts: 20

Originally Posted by: CraigI Go to Quoted Post
I’ve had adaptive dampers on various S and RS Audi’s and found all of those set ups to be a jack of all trades, master of none.

To the OP, sounds like you’ve made your mind up. Some people prefer a less focussed product than Renaultsport often provide. You aren’t wrong, just make sure you test drive all of the softer variants to make sure you get the right one - sounds like you know what it is you are after, but you could easily get it wrong in this sector.

I had a Focus ST-3 once. Didn’t gel with it at all despite the 2.5.
Why not start a thread about your Focus ST buying experience?


Indeed, you are bang on. It's very easy to get it wrong in this sector, I like to keep my cars for 5 years, so it's important to get it right. I drove an i30N recently and was very unimpressed with it from a daily perspective, good fun for a blast alright.

The facelift model mk3 Focus ST was ruined by Ford added stiffer springs etc... it just bounced all over the road compared with the pre facelift.

Reviews of the Megane Sport chassis compliance with bumpy roads are excellent, just such a shame, and so pointless that they won't let you spec the diff on the Sport. Makes absolutely no sense, 280bhp spinning up through one wheel on a wet day...... anyway, so be it

Will be interesting to test drive both Megane R.S and Focus ST when both arrive in Ireland later in the year
Offline Colm_ire  
#18 Posted : 19 February 2019 11:57:14(UTC)
Colm_ire


Posts: 20

Originally Posted by: Buffalo Girls Go to Quoted Post


The Focus LSD is an “electronic” diff. If you think that’s the same as the mechanical diff on the Megane, you’re very much mistaken.




"Sourced from Borg Warner, the new Focus ST diff utilises hydraulic clutch plates to accurately distribute the torque between the front wheels, and it does this pre-emptively based on data gathered from a suite of sensors, rather than responding to wheelspin as in a traditional LSD and can shift 100% of drive to either wheel"


Surely the Focus ST diff is better than having no limited slip diff as is the case with the Sport chassis R.S
Offline Colm_ire  
#19 Posted : 19 February 2019 12:00:50(UTC)
Colm_ire


Posts: 20


and for anyone that thinks I'm a Ford fan boy, far from it, I've owned one Ford ever... and the new ST already has one huge flaw before we even hear any test drive reviews....

ST, Civic Type R, Golf, Cupra etc owners can all look forward to this!!...



Offline Georgeski  
#20 Posted : 19 February 2019 12:07:09(UTC)
Georgeski


Posts: 4,553

Originally Posted by: CraigI Go to Quoted Post
Just saw the pictures.
Very Mazda like.


It looks very similar to the Mk2 Mazda 3 MPS (including its wheels). I think that's why I like it as I always thought the MPS was a really good looking car.
Offline mark@rawlinson  
#21 Posted : 19 February 2019 13:19:27(UTC)
mark@rawlinson


Posts: 140

Originally Posted by: Georgeski Go to Quoted Post
It is a mechanical diff that is electronically controlled. It is not torque vectoring.


same as on the non LSD equipped sport chassis meganes, also on the clio 200/220T's

also, megs have hydraulic bumpstops, but not adaptive damping
Offline Georgeski  
#22 Posted : 19 February 2019 13:43:47(UTC)
Georgeski


Posts: 4,553

Originally Posted by: mark@rawlinson Go to Quoted Post
Originally Posted by: Georgeski Go to Quoted Post
It is a mechanical diff that is electronically controlled. It is not torque vectoring.


same as on the non LSD equipped sport chassis meganes, also on the clio 200/220T's

also, megs have hydraulic bumpstops, but not adaptive damping


It's not, that is torque vectoring i.e. using the brakes to try and simulate a diff.

This is a real diff that is electronically controlled - same item that is used in the Cupra and i30N
Offline MrRS  
#23 Posted : 19 February 2019 17:46:09(UTC)
MrRS


Posts: 43

The first drives will soon reveal if Ford has hit the spot. The fk8 Type R has well sorted adaptive damping and that is just one of its aces, so if Ford has also managed to get a bit of the Fiesta ST magic in the chassis, it could be the new big player. What they are going to price it at with those decent rivals around will be key.
Offline Marc_250  
#24 Posted : 19 February 2019 23:52:02(UTC)
Marc_250


Posts: 5,115

Originally Posted by: MrRS Go to Quoted Post
The first drives will soon reveal if Ford has hit the spot. The fk8 Type R has well sorted adaptive damping and that is just one of its aces, so if Ford has also managed to get a bit of the Fiesta ST magic in the chassis, it could be the new big player. What they are going to price it at with those decent rivals around will be key.


The Ford won't be taking on the Type R for outright performance but I bet it will outsell the Type R 10+ times over, so I'm sure it'll be a big player if not the biggest.
Offline Buffalo Girls  
#25 Posted : 20 February 2019 07:25:51(UTC)
Buffalo Girls


Posts: 1,815

Originally Posted by: Georgeski Go to Quoted Post
Originally Posted by: mark@rawlinson Go to Quoted Post
Originally Posted by: Georgeski Go to Quoted Post
It is a mechanical diff that is electronically controlled. It is not torque vectoring.


same as on the non LSD equipped sport chassis meganes, also on the clio 200/220T's

also, megs have hydraulic bumpstops, but not adaptive damping


It's not, that is torque vectoring i.e. using the brakes to try and simulate a diff.

This is a real diff that is electronically controlled - same item that is used in the Cupra and i30N


Ah, good to hear
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