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Offline MrRS  
#51 Posted : 22 February 2019 14:17:38(UTC)
MrRS


Posts: 68

Originally Posted by: Kirsty172 Go to Quoted Post
Originally Posted by: Black225 Go to Quoted Post
Strange that Ford have 2 different engine strategies, down sizing the Fiesta and up sizing the Focus.
Looks wise the photos I've seen so far aren't doing it any favours.


that's a very good point and observation. they had the ability to upsize the 1 litre i guess to upgrade in the fiesta st. in the focus, i guess downgrading the 2.3 wasn't cost effective, even though it is environmentally friendly. they also made a big advertising thing about that too.

it'll interesting how they pitch it therefore in this case with an engine upsize (and, a very lazily tuned one it would appear also).

fuel economy will be interesting, my focus rs drank like a fish, must worse than the m135i before even with an engine 30% smaller.


I’m not sure people buying a hot hatch are that worried about a few mpg differences between the manufacturers. Not really a priority. The Focus ST 2.3 engine already has class leading torque and has a big potential for tuning which is a big player for many buyers, particularly if you keep the warranty.

Offline ray ban  
#52 Posted : 22 February 2019 15:20:42(UTC)
ray ban


Posts: 566

https://www.autotrader.c...ation=at_cars&page=1

Couple questions:-
Really!
Why?

Its a Ford!
Offline Georgeski  
#53 Posted : 22 February 2019 15:30:13(UTC)
Georgeski


Posts: 4,559

Originally Posted by: ray ban Go to Quoted Post
https://www.autotrader.co.uk/classified/advert/201809060236061?make=FORD&radius=1500&onesearchad=Used&onesearchad=Nearly%20New&onesearchad=New&postcode=wn68qr&sort=price-desc&model=FOCUS&advertising-location=at_cars&page=1

Couple questions:-
Really!
Why?

Its a Ford!


Not as much as these:
https://www.pistonheads....lls-for-83k-update/39515
Offline John_walker74  
#54 Posted : 22 February 2019 16:26:08(UTC)
John_walker74


Posts: 958
Location: Buckingham

Ford has a very strong following.
Offline Marc_250  
#55 Posted : 22 February 2019 16:30:35(UTC)
Marc_250


Posts: 5,118

Originally Posted by: ray ban Go to Quoted Post
https://www.autotrader.co.uk/classified/advert/201809060236061?make=FORD&radius=1500&onesearchad=Used&onesearchad=Nearly%20New&onesearchad=New&postcode=wn68qr&sort=price-desc&model=FOCUS&advertising-location=at_cars&page=1

Couple questions:-
Really!
Why?

Its a Ford!


I can only endorse such valuations. Best cars ever LOL

At least that's what I'll be hoping when it comes to getting shut of mine, maybe if I wrap it orange Wink
Offline Black225  
#56 Posted : 22 February 2019 20:24:48(UTC)
Black225


Posts: 1,124
Location: On The Edge

Originally Posted by: Georgeski Go to Quoted Post
Originally Posted by: ray ban Go to Quoted Post
https://www.autotrader.co.uk/classified/advert/201809060236061?make=FORD&radius=1500&onesearchad=Used&onesearchad=Nearly%20New&onesearchad=New&postcode=wn68qr&sort=price-desc&model=FOCUS&advertising-location=at_cars&page=1

Couple questions:-
Really!
Why?

Its a Ford!


Not as much as these:
https://www.pistonheads....lls-for-83k-update/39515


Fool's Gold!LOL

Edited by user 22 February 2019 20:27:32(UTC)  | Reason: Not specified

Offline Colm_ire  
#57 Posted : 25 February 2019 16:20:00(UTC)
Colm_ire


Posts: 20

Originally Posted by: Kirsty172 Go to Quoted Post


well like i said, sounds like you've made your mind up for a compromised warm hatch. 0-60 doesn't really indicate a car's capability as a hot hatch, although if that is your measure then there's also a good number of fast diesel estates that might also be of interest to you.

it will be good if it is lighter than the last focus. for sure, the focus RS i had was heavier than my house, and it felt it unfortunately whilst driving. the motoring reviews strangely didn't make as big an issue of that as it really was...

i see no conflict actually with renault's offering. the person who 'needs' an lsd equipped car will typically also want a more deliberate chassis set-up. the 2 are not in conflict. check out the reviews of the fiesta st with and without it's diff. you might want to think if you really need one.

so like i say, i don't actually see renault being 'in the past' with their selection of chassis selections. i don't see a conflict in their set-ups. i think you'll probably find that when an fk8 CTR driver is using their car in 'comfort' mode, they'll not be testing the front axle traction that much to warrant the lsd...so if that comfort is important to you, the softer ford sounds perfect for you. you've done an excellent job of selling it to the target audience.


A man who thinks a 280hp, sub six second 0-100kph hatch with manual box, adaptive dampers, sport and track modes, limited slip diff, anti lag, launch control etc.... isn't a hot hatch, is a man that either a) knows very little about cars or b) has a grudge against a manufacturer. Either way, the reasons behind your lack of motoring knowledge don't interest me.

As for the RS being heavy. The RS is a heavy pig, it weighs 1599kg, this information was widely available to all before buying. It was always going to feel it whilst driving, weight is one thing you can't hide, i'm surprised this was a surprise to any owner!!!!

It's laughable, almost fanboy stuff, to say there is no conflict in the offering from Renault. For example, I want maximum grip and acceleration out of tight wet corners, which the LSD assists in providing by preventing spinning up a one wheel drive 280hp front wheel drive car. Yet, Renault decide, oh no, because you also want a car that's capable of being comfortable as a daily and family life hot hatch (after all it's a hot hatch, not a lotus elise), you sir must have a spinning one wheel drive car. It's bad enough the car isn't dynamically adjustable like it's competitors, but worse still they don't even provide all the options on the fixed setups. Absolute nonsense to hardcode a suspension setup to essentially a traction choice. Utterly old hat. Thankfully however, Renault is one of the few manufacturers still caught in the noughties. Us as hot hatch buyers should demand more, not less, from manufacturers, and as one of the few hot hatch makers imposing such restrictions, it's a simple fact that Renault is not providing potential customers with the options its competitors are.... Maybe it'll work for Renault and they'll outsell their competitors, I very much doubt that however.

As I said about the Civic, it's technically brilliant, but only has four seats and it looks absolutely ridiculous, so i wouldn't even consider it.

Now, lets see if Ford have delivered with this ST, the drive has to back up the very promising specifications.
Offline CraigI  
#58 Posted : 25 February 2019 17:34:29(UTC)
CraigI


Posts: 988

Originally Posted by: Colm_ire Go to Quoted Post
Originally Posted by: Kirsty172 Go to Quoted Post


well like i said, sounds like you've made your mind up for a compromised warm hatch. 0-60 doesn't really indicate a car's capability as a hot hatch, although if that is your measure then there's also a good number of fast diesel estates that might also be of interest to you.

it will be good if it is lighter than the last focus. for sure, the focus RS i had was heavier than my house, and it felt it unfortunately whilst driving. the motoring reviews strangely didn't make as big an issue of that as it really was...

i see no conflict actually with renault's offering. the person who 'needs' an lsd equipped car will typically also want a more deliberate chassis set-up. the 2 are not in conflict. check out the reviews of the fiesta st with and without it's diff. you might want to think if you really need one.

so like i say, i don't actually see renault being 'in the past' with their selection of chassis selections. i don't see a conflict in their set-ups. i think you'll probably find that when an fk8 CTR driver is using their car in 'comfort' mode, they'll not be testing the front axle traction that much to warrant the lsd...so if that comfort is important to you, the softer ford sounds perfect for you. you've done an excellent job of selling it to the target audience.


A man who thinks a 280hp, sub six second 0-100kph hatch with manual box, adaptive dampers, sport and track modes, limited slip diff, anti lag, launch control etc.... isn't a hot hatch, is a man that either a) knows very little about cars or b) has a grudge against a manufacturer. Either way, the reasons behind your lack of motoring knowledge don't interest me.

As for the RS being heavy. The RS is a heavy pig, it weighs 1599kg, this information was widely available to all before buying. It was always going to feel it whilst driving, weight is one thing you can't hide, i'm surprised this was a surprise to any owner!!!!

It's laughable, almost fanboy stuff, to say there is no conflict in the offering from Renault. For example, I want maximum grip and acceleration out of tight wet corners, which the LSD assists in providing by preventing spinning up a one wheel drive 280hp front wheel drive car. Yet, Renault decide, oh no, because you also want a car that's capable of being comfortable as a daily and family life hot hatch (after all it's a hot hatch, not a lotus elise), you sir must have a spinning one wheel drive car. It's bad enough the car isn't dynamically adjustable like it's competitors, but worse still they don't even provide all the options on the fixed setups. Absolute nonsense to hardcode a suspension setup to essentially a traction choice. Utterly old hat. Thankfully however, Renault is one of the few manufacturers still caught in the noughties. Us as hot hatch buyers should demand more, not less, from manufacturers, and as one of the few hot hatch makers imposing such restrictions, it's a simple fact that Renault is not providing potential customers with the options its competitors are.... Maybe it'll work for Renault and they'll outsell their competitors, I very much doubt that however.

As I said about the Civic, it's technically brilliant, but only has four seats and it looks absolutely ridiculous, so i wouldn't even consider it.

Now, lets see if Ford have delivered with this ST, the drive has to back up the very promising specifications.


You keep repeating the same thing.
I don’t think Renaultsport is for you.
Time to move on I think.
Offline bobbyboy  
#59 Posted : 25 February 2019 18:05:41(UTC)
bobbyboy


Posts: 36
Location: in a house

but is it worth waiting for the focus RS, I had a test drive in the current focus RS and have to say, disappointing - power yes but I still preferred the TypeR GT on looks and drive-ability, everyone to their own though, its your money, spend as you choose.
Offline Kirsty172  
#60 Posted : 25 February 2019 18:34:13(UTC)
Kirsty172


Posts: 4,949

Originally Posted by: Colm_ire Go to Quoted Post
Originally Posted by: Kirsty172 Go to Quoted Post


well like i said, sounds like you've made your mind up for a compromised warm hatch. 0-60 doesn't really indicate a car's capability as a hot hatch, although if that is your measure then there's also a good number of fast diesel estates that might also be of interest to you.

it will be good if it is lighter than the last focus. for sure, the focus RS i had was heavier than my house, and it felt it unfortunately whilst driving. the motoring reviews strangely didn't make as big an issue of that as it really was...

i see no conflict actually with renault's offering. the person who 'needs' an lsd equipped car will typically also want a more deliberate chassis set-up. the 2 are not in conflict. check out the reviews of the fiesta st with and without it's diff. you might want to think if you really need one.

so like i say, i don't actually see renault being 'in the past' with their selection of chassis selections. i don't see a conflict in their set-ups. i think you'll probably find that when an fk8 CTR driver is using their car in 'comfort' mode, they'll not be testing the front axle traction that much to warrant the lsd...so if that comfort is important to you, the softer ford sounds perfect for you. you've done an excellent job of selling it to the target audience.


A man who thinks a 280hp, sub six second 0-100kph hatch with manual box, adaptive dampers, sport and track modes, limited slip diff, anti lag, launch control etc.... isn't a hot hatch, is a man that either a) knows very little about cars or b) has a grudge against a manufacturer. Either way, the reasons behind your lack of motoring knowledge don't interest me.

As for the RS being heavy. The RS is a heavy pig, it weighs 1599kg, this information was widely available to all before buying. It was always going to feel it whilst driving, weight is one thing you can't hide, i'm surprised this was a surprise to any owner!!!!

It's laughable, almost fanboy stuff, to say there is no conflict in the offering from Renault. For example, I want maximum grip and acceleration out of tight wet corners, which the LSD assists in providing by preventing spinning up a one wheel drive 280hp front wheel drive car. Yet, Renault decide, oh no, because you also want a car that's capable of being comfortable as a daily and family life hot hatch (after all it's a hot hatch, not a lotus elise), you sir must have a spinning one wheel drive car. It's bad enough the car isn't dynamically adjustable like it's competitors, but worse still they don't even provide all the options on the fixed setups. Absolute nonsense to hardcode a suspension setup to essentially a traction choice. Utterly old hat. Thankfully however, Renault is one of the few manufacturers still caught in the noughties. Us as hot hatch buyers should demand more, not less, from manufacturers, and as one of the few hot hatch makers imposing such restrictions, it's a simple fact that Renault is not providing potential customers with the options its competitors are.... Maybe it'll work for Renault and they'll outsell their competitors, I very much doubt that however.

As I said about the Civic, it's technically brilliant, but only has four seats and it looks absolutely ridiculous, so i wouldn't even consider it.

Now, lets see if Ford have delivered with this ST, the drive has to back up the very promising specifications.


As craig says (and i never agree with him!) - i don't think you're an r.s. customer, so maybe consider finding a ford forum on which to share your admiration of their cars. i'm very pleased you managed to find a ford that ticks so many boxes for you. it sounds like the ST gives you everything you want in a jack of all trades/inherently compromised by definition car. as you say, it sounds very versatile which is exactly what you want.

enjoy the car.
Offline Black Cup  
#61 Posted : 07 May 2019 18:08:30(UTC)
Black Cup


Posts: 24
Location: Wales

Prices released today and I think Ford have blown it, well at least with the price of the petrol model!
Offline ray ban  
#62 Posted : 07 May 2019 19:04:18(UTC)
ray ban


Posts: 566

Originally Posted by: Black Cup Go to Quoted Post
Prices released today and I think Ford have blown it, well at least with the price of the petrol model!


ST not for me....
https://www.topgear.com/...r-used-mercedes-e63-amg#

Sorry. price £31,995Confused

Edited by user 07 May 2019 19:05:56(UTC)  | Reason: Not specified

Offline Penn  
#63 Posted : 07 May 2019 20:57:41(UTC)
Penn


Posts: 3,090

Why have they blown it on price? Seems reasonable to me for what you get.
Offline Black Cup  
#64 Posted : 07 May 2019 22:03:36(UTC)
Black Cup


Posts: 24
Location: Wales

At the price point (£31,995 for the petrol model) you are up against the all conquering Civic Type R and electrifying Megane Trophy, both with more power and very distinct USP's. The Focus has 276 bhp (torque is good though - queue more relaxed driving manner) so ideally should have been priced around the Megane 280 and Hyundai i30N. I know Ford will be keen to discount and the PCP deals will be great, but the ST marketing position to me is at the bargain end of the hot hatch scale and the initial asking price does not feel that keen to me.
Offline Penn  
#65 Posted : 08 May 2019 07:59:56(UTC)
Penn


Posts: 3,090

It will feel far more upmarket and be higher quality than both the Honda and Megane.

The latest focus is an astronomical step up from the old one.

Not everyone wants a track weapon, in fact the minority want a track weapon which is why Renaultsport have struggled so much and Ford ST’s have reined supreme.

Gotta be the best all round hot hatch proposition by far if it drives well and isn’t spine shattering (which I doubt it will be).


Offline Colm_ire  
#66 Posted : 08 May 2019 11:04:03(UTC)
Colm_ire


Posts: 20

The new ST is expensive. Adding a Cup chassis to get LSD and 19" wheels on renault.co.uk brings it to £30,285. That's £1710 more expensive for the ST with 19" and Limited Slip Diff, lots of cash. PCP deals and discounts will probably be attractive, but either way, nothing cheap anymore.

More important will be the drive. Only time will tell if Ford deliver on the big big claims they've made about no compromise, being equally at home on the track as it is touring/in the city. At least the design mindset for a hot hatch is right, so there is reason to be hopeful.

I drove a Cup chassis car this week. It's a lovely car. Looks fantastic in my opinion, better looking than the ST to my eye.
But the ride is nowhere near the quality I expect from a 2019 car at this price point, it's awful for day to day. Spare me all the tough guy talk about being a drivers car, rock hard suspension does not make a drivers car, rather just poor engineering. It's not 1999, these days a hot hatch should be capable of touring, like we all have to alot of the time, and then being firm and aggressive when we get the opportunity to have fun with it. The Cup ticks only one of these boxes... fail to Renault.... lets see if Ford succeed, at least the customer can set the new ST up to their liking in car to suit the journey/road ahead, rather than choosing a fixed setup from the order book!!!!
Offline MrRS  
#67 Posted : 08 May 2019 13:44:16(UTC)
MrRS


Posts: 68

Some strong pricing from Ford there.

But most of these will get sold on finance so the headline list price is a bit irrelevant. What will be relevant is the PCP and finance deal that Ford pumps out and traditionally they have very good. Ford always seem keen to shift cars and maybe the high list price gives them headroom for discounts, dealer contributions and very competitive monthly payments that make prospective buyers feel that have negotiated a great package.
Offline MrRS  
#68 Posted : 08 May 2019 13:52:22(UTC)
MrRS


Posts: 68

Originally Posted by: Colm_ire Go to Quoted Post
The new ST is expensive. Adding a Cup chassis to get LSD and 19" wheels on renault.co.uk brings it to £30,285. That's £1710 more expensive for the ST with 19" and Limited Slip Diff, lots of cash. PCP deals and discounts will probably be attractive, but either way, nothing cheap anymore.

More important will be the drive. Only time will tell if Ford deliver on the big big claims they've made about no compromise, being equally at home on the track as it is touring/in the city. At least the design mindset for a hot hatch is right, so there is reason to be hopeful.

I drove a Cup chassis car this week. It's a lovely car. Looks fantastic in my opinion, better looking than the ST to my eye.
But the ride is nowhere near the quality I expect from a 2019 car at this price point, it's awful for day to day. Spare me all the tough guy talk about being a drivers car, rock hard suspension does not make a drivers car, rather just poor engineering. It's not 1999, these days a hot hatch should be capable of touring, like we all have to alot of the time, and then being firm and aggressive when we get the opportunity to have fun with it. The Cup ticks only one of these boxes... fail to Renault.... lets see if Ford succeed, at least the customer can set the new ST up to their liking in car to suit the journey/road ahead, rather than choosing a fixed setup from the order book!!!!


I think Renault should have dumped the 4WS in favour of adaptive damping on the Mk4 280/300. Would be more appealing to a wider range of buyers. I have a feeling the Mk4 Megane Trophy R, if it comes to production, will probably drop the 4WS. Renaultsport engineers were probably forced to keep it on cost grounds when they were told to adapt the 5 door Megane GT to an RS version.

Offline JimBob07  
#69 Posted : 08 May 2019 18:46:09(UTC)
JimBob07


Posts: 12

Not sure I would have a focus st for that amount of money
Offline foxspeed  
#70 Posted : 08 May 2019 19:20:30(UTC)
foxspeed


Posts: 21,609
Location: retour dans la bulle

quite like the look of the focus has a few styling queues of the megane i think
Offline Penn  
#71 Posted : 08 May 2019 19:42:40(UTC)
Penn


Posts: 3,090

Originally Posted by: JimBob07 Go to Quoted Post
Not sure I would have a focus st for that amount of money


You won’t ever pay close to the RRP on a Ford though.
Offline JimBob07  
#72 Posted : 08 May 2019 20:01:05(UTC)
JimBob07


Posts: 12

Yeah I bet you will get a good discount if you shop around enough
Offline foxspeed  
#73 Posted : 08 May 2019 20:41:26(UTC)
foxspeed


Posts: 21,609
Location: retour dans la bulle

Originally Posted by: JimBob07 Go to Quoted Post
Yeah I bet you will get a good discount if you shop around enough


bet there is as there are some nice deals on the fiesta st
Offline JimBob07  
#74 Posted : 08 May 2019 20:52:26(UTC)
JimBob07


Posts: 12

Really I might look at the fiesta ST I have heard they are very good.
Offline CraigI  
#75 Posted : 09 May 2019 05:14:52(UTC)
CraigI


Posts: 988

Drivers demands appear to have changed / softened.
I blame VW and Audi.
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