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Offline jamesev  
#1 Posted : 04 February 2020 17:50:10(UTC)
jamesev


Posts: 1,923

As the magane is on mk4 is suspect with the government bringing ban on ICE to 2035 I can’t see Renault making a mk6 ICE for the UK market if they even they do make a mk5
Offline dave.berry  
#2 Posted : 04 February 2020 19:48:34(UTC)
dave.berry


Posts: 91
Location: In my house

In Car Entertainment being banned in 2035? So no more radio?
Banning ice would make the roads safer though can they ban snow too on the roads.
PS realise Internal Combustion Engines

Edited by user 04 February 2020 19:50:51(UTC)  | Reason: Not specified

Offline jamesev  
#3 Posted : 06 February 2020 09:26:37(UTC)
jamesev


Posts: 1,923

Originally Posted by: dave.berry Go to Quoted Post
In Car Entertainment being banned in 2035? So no more radio?
Banning ice would make the roads safer though can they ban snow too on the roads.
PS realise Internal Combustion Engines


Will RS owners embrace the inevitable RS brand in the UK being electric or will there just be a market for ICE RS’s becoming classics.
Offline dave.berry  
#4 Posted : 06 February 2020 16:40:20(UTC)
dave.berry


Posts: 91
Location: In my house

same performance (at least) and a good range I would really think about it.
The UK needs to improve the amount of charging point locations too.
Offline jamesev  
#5 Posted : 06 February 2020 18:00:38(UTC)
jamesev


Posts: 1,923

Originally Posted by: dave.berry Go to Quoted Post
same performance (at least) and a good range I would really think about it.
The UK needs to improve the amount of charging point locations too.


I suspect that will come thick and fast now there are firm indicators that the infrastructure will have use.
Offline Penn  
#6 Posted : 06 February 2020 19:09:59(UTC)
Penn


Posts: 3,091

There are way more charge points than petrol stations and hundreds are being added every quarter.
Offline dave.berry  
#7 Posted : 06 February 2020 19:54:28(UTC)
dave.berry


Posts: 91
Location: In my house

But I live on 12th floor or a busy public street how do I charge over night? Do not want to have to get up earlier to go charge my car before work.
Offline Marc_250  
#8 Posted : 06 February 2020 22:14:02(UTC)
Marc_250


Posts: 5,119

Originally Posted by: dave.berry Go to Quoted Post
But I live on 12th floor or a busy public street how do I charge over night? Do not want to have to get up earlier to go charge my car before work.


In the ideal world they'll be a accessible charge point for every driver. Street lamps, supermarkets, general car parks etc, basically anywhere you generally leave your car. In reality when has anything run to time or worked out as politicians said?

The whole EV thing will turn into a balls up one way or another.
Offline dave.berry  
#9 Posted : 07 February 2020 13:50:12(UTC)
dave.berry


Posts: 91
Location: In my house

Originally Posted by: Marc_250 Go to Quoted Post
Originally Posted by: dave.berry Go to Quoted Post
But I live on 12th floor or a busy public street how do I charge over night? Do not want to have to get up earlier to go charge my car before work.


In the ideal world they'll be a accessible charge point for every driver. Street lamps, supermarkets, general car parks etc, basically anywhere you generally leave your car. In reality when has anything run to time or worked out as politicians said?

The whole EV thing will turn into a balls up one way or another.


Can the national grid support the extra load of everyone plugging in at the same time? The lights dim at half time of world cup final

Hopefully all will be sorted but I doubt it

Offline Marc_250  
#10 Posted : 07 February 2020 20:30:37(UTC)
Marc_250


Posts: 5,119

Originally Posted by: dave.berry Go to Quoted Post
Originally Posted by: Marc_250 Go to Quoted Post
Originally Posted by: dave.berry Go to Quoted Post
But I live on 12th floor or a busy public street how do I charge over night? Do not want to have to get up earlier to go charge my car before work.


In the ideal world they'll be a accessible charge point for every driver. Street lamps, supermarkets, general car parks etc, basically anywhere you generally leave your car. In reality when has anything run to time or worked out as politicians said?

The whole EV thing will turn into a balls up one way or another.


Can the national grid support the extra load of everyone plugging in at the same time? The lights dim at half time of world cup final

Hopefully all will be sorted but I doubt it



As you say of course it can't, it will need £billions of investment (which I'm sure nobody will want to mention how much CO2 that will produce or who's going to pay for (us)). Don't mention lithium battery production, scrapping existing vehicles, producing brand new EVs...and then scrapping them when we're bored of them (i.e. they're old/outdated).

I'm not against EVs btw they're great but they're not magical and shouldn't be seen as zero emissions
Offline foxspeed  
#11 Posted : 07 February 2020 20:54:09(UTC)
foxspeed


Posts: 21,653
Location: retour dans la bulle

Originally Posted by: Marc_250 Go to Quoted Post
Originally Posted by: dave.berry Go to Quoted Post
But I live on 12th floor or a busy public street how do I charge over night? Do not want to have to get up earlier to go charge my car before work.


In the ideal world they'll be a accessible charge point for every driver. Street lamps, supermarkets, general car parks etc, basically anywhere you generally leave your car. In reality when has anything run to time or worked out as politicians said?

The whole EV thing will turn into a balls up one way or another.


rumour has it that the hs2 team are moving on to this...so expect the ban to come in to force in 3045 and only be £2 trillion over budget Blush
Offline Penn  
#12 Posted : 09 February 2020 22:42:47(UTC)
Penn


Posts: 3,091

Originally Posted by: dave.berry Go to Quoted Post
But I live on 12th floor or a busy public street how do I charge over night? Do not want to have to get up earlier to go charge my car before work.


By 2035 it won’t be a problem. You will be able to charge anywhere.

Right now, you might not need to charge every night unless you do 150 miles a day and if that’s still an issue, then electric cars aren’t for you I’m afraid.
Offline jamesev  
#13 Posted : 10 February 2020 08:37:44(UTC)
jamesev


Posts: 1,923

Originally Posted by: dave.berry Go to Quoted Post
Originally Posted by: Marc_250 Go to Quoted Post
Originally Posted by: dave.berry Go to Quoted Post
But I live on 12th floor or a busy public street how do I charge over night? Do not want to have to get up earlier to go charge my car before work.


In the ideal world they'll be a accessible charge point for every driver. Street lamps, supermarkets, general car parks etc, basically anywhere you generally leave your car. In reality when has anything run to time or worked out as politicians said?

The whole EV thing will turn into a balls up one way or another.


Can the national grid support the extra load of everyone plugging in at the same time? The lights dim at half time of world cup final

Hopefully all will be sorted but I doubt it



https://www.nationalgrid...ectric-dreams-future-evs
https://www.nationalgrid...electric-vehicles-busted

If there are clear indicators that EV purchase and use will ramp up then the infrastructure follows suit. You assume that the demand will require an increase in Grid Supply. However heres a possible chain.

Motor Industry - New EVs. More domestic demand. Housing Industry - Develop Solar roofs and mandate storage cells. Heat Networks are developed in inner cities (how much heat is generated within a city that could be captured. These result in the demand being met by supply that doesn't go through the HV National Grid System. If you can manage a lot of the frequency control by demand side response rather than just the traditional supply side you can flatten the supply load. This flat load level is ideal for Nuclear supply. If there are indicators that Nuclear supply is the best form then you get interest in new generation construction and the National Grid can connect.

Edited by user 10 February 2020 14:42:07(UTC)  | Reason: Not specified

Offline FramerateUK  
#14 Posted : 13 February 2020 09:31:25(UTC)
FramerateUK


Posts: 352
Location: Cardiff

I'm looking forward to having an electric car, but the cost at the moment is too much.

A specced up Zoe is almost as much as a 280 Cup (and will be more once the government rebate goes away in April).

There also seems to be a total lack of middle ground for electric cars right now. They're either tiny (Zoe, Leaf) or huge (iPace, Model S, Model X). The only decent sized one is the Model 3, but it's so much more expensive than similarly sized cars that I don't want to make that plunge yet.

I've got the 280 for another 2 years, I hope my next daily will be electric - I think we'll have some more choice by then.
Offline Kirsty172  
#15 Posted : 13 February 2020 20:26:10(UTC)
Kirsty172


Posts: 4,951

Don't hold your breath for charging infrastructure progress to match EV take up ambitions. 150 billion to waste on HS2 plus a declining balance of exports to boot. We'll be broke inside a decade.
Offline Georgeski  
#16 Posted : 14 February 2020 10:29:12(UTC)
Georgeski


Posts: 4,620

We wont be.
Offline Penn  
#17 Posted : 14 February 2020 16:38:54(UTC)
Penn


Posts: 3,091

Originally Posted by: FramerateUK Go to Quoted Post
I'm looking forward to having an electric car, but the cost at the moment is too much.

A specced up Zoe is almost as much as a 280 Cup (and will be more once the government rebate goes away in April).

There also seems to be a total lack of middle ground for electric cars right now. They're either tiny (Zoe, Leaf) or huge (iPace, Model S, Model X). The only decent sized one is the Model 3, but it's so much more expensive than similarly sized cars that I don't want to make that plunge yet.

I've got the 280 for another 2 years, I hope my next daily will be electric - I think we'll have some more choice by then.


There are quite a few family sized BEVs. The Leaf is one of them and the iPace isn’t a huge car.

Hyundai Kona
Kia e-Niro
MG SUV
VW I.D 3
Golf electric

You then have new-age cars which aren’t tiny anymore such as:

208 electric
Corsa electric

By the end of 2020 they’ll be even more to choose from, too.
Offline FramerateUK  
#18 Posted : 17 February 2020 10:45:29(UTC)
FramerateUK


Posts: 352
Location: Cardiff

Originally Posted by: Penn Go to Quoted Post
Originally Posted by: FramerateUK Go to Quoted Post
I'm looking forward to having an electric car, but the cost at the moment is too much.

A specced up Zoe is almost as much as a 280 Cup (and will be more once the government rebate goes away in April).

There also seems to be a total lack of middle ground for electric cars right now. They're either tiny (Zoe, Leaf) or huge (iPace, Model S, Model X). The only decent sized one is the Model 3, but it's so much more expensive than similarly sized cars that I don't want to make that plunge yet.

I've got the 280 for another 2 years, I hope my next daily will be electric - I think we'll have some more choice by then.


There are quite a few family sized BEVs. The Leaf is one of them and the iPace isn’t a huge car.

Hyundai Kona
Kia e-Niro
MG SUV
VW I.D 3
Golf electric

You then have new-age cars which aren’t tiny anymore such as:

208 electric
Corsa electric

By the end of 2020 they’ll be even more to choose from, too.



Most of the first list aren't actually available at the moment though.

The Corsa and 208 are a step in the right direction, but once you price one up, they're over 30k!

My issue is that I have no interest at all in back seat space, what I really need is a boot big enough for the dog, none of the slopey back SUVs have any of those! They tend to be smaller than their hatchback cousins.

Ironically my dog doesn't fit in the 280 boot since it's too shallow, he did fit in the old 250 Cup though. I would really like an electric estate but hybrids are the only options at the moment.

It'll come. It's just not there yet. I might end up with a Focus ST estate once the PCP on the 280 is up, and then hopefully someone will make the car I want :).
Offline Buffalo Girls  
#19 Posted : 17 February 2020 15:23:11(UTC)
Buffalo Girls


Posts: 1,851

Originally Posted by: FramerateUK Go to Quoted Post
Originally Posted by: Penn Go to Quoted Post
Originally Posted by: FramerateUK Go to Quoted Post
I'm looking forward to having an electric car, but the cost at the moment is too much.

A specced up Zoe is almost as much as a 280 Cup (and will be more once the government rebate goes away in April).

There also seems to be a total lack of middle ground for electric cars right now. They're either tiny (Zoe, Leaf) or huge (iPace, Model S, Model X). The only decent sized one is the Model 3, but it's so much more expensive than similarly sized cars that I don't want to make that plunge yet.

I've got the 280 for another 2 years, I hope my next daily will be electric - I think we'll have some more choice by then.


There are quite a few family sized BEVs. The Leaf is one of them and the iPace isn’t a huge car.

Hyundai Kona
Kia e-Niro
MG SUV
VW I.D 3
Golf electric

You then have new-age cars which aren’t tiny anymore such as:

208 electric
Corsa electric

By the end of 2020 they’ll be even more to choose from, too.



Most of the first list aren't actually available at the moment though.

The Corsa and 208 are a step in the right direction, but once you price one up, they're over 30k!

My issue is that I have no interest at all in back seat space, what I really need is a boot big enough for the dog, none of the slopey back SUVs have any of those! They tend to be smaller than their hatchback cousins.

Ironically my dog doesn't fit in the 280 boot since it's too shallow, he did fit in the old 250 Cup though. I would really like an electric estate but hybrids are the only options at the moment.

It'll come. It's just not there yet. I might end up with a Focus ST estate once the PCP on the 280 is up, and then hopefully someone will make the car I want :).


e208 starts at £25k, Corsa electric starts at £28k

Offline FramerateUK  
#20 Posted : 17 February 2020 21:55:09(UTC)
FramerateUK


Posts: 352
Location: Cardiff

Originally Posted by: Buffalo Girls Go to Quoted Post

e208 starts at £25k, Corsa electric starts at £28k



Yeah I had a play with the Corsa configurator when it came out. By the time you add a few options (and the 11kw version), it's well over 30k even including the rebate.
Offline jamesev  
#21 Posted : 18 February 2020 14:39:44(UTC)
jamesev


Posts: 1,923

Offline Marc_250  
#22 Posted : 18 February 2020 21:06:12(UTC)
Marc_250


Posts: 5,119

Harris had some interesting views on where EV's are now:

?t=312

15-25k miles before the save the planet car overcomes a regular ones CO2 emissions?

Does that mean I can buy a used 5L mustang do 10k in it and be greener than a Tesla driver?
Offline jamesev  
#23 Posted : 19 February 2020 11:06:04(UTC)
jamesev


Posts: 1,923

The thing that jumped out at me from Chris Harris' opening comments is the car fitting into your life or you fitting into the cars life. The future to avoid exponential climate change starts with behavioural changes. Whilst this might be an unpopular view since the 50s society has become very consumer orientated and it will be difficult to break from that. Modern Convenience (ModCon) was coined as we all want our lives to be made easier and easier however it seemed to come without a certain degree of responsibility that is now being realised. There was a good reason why Al Gore's film was titled "An Inconvenient Truth" and whatever views you have on the motive behind the film whether benevolent or designed to increase his own wealth the phrase still stand true.

There needs to be innovation and rapid innovation that will come at a cost in the automotive sector which at the moment motorist don't want to see or absorb, however I suspect what will happen will the cost will be equalised between ICE and EV by the increase in the cost of motoring with ICE, be that through annual tax or fuelling.

Its happening in companies with company cars where its now most cost effective to get a Model 3 due to tax breaks than to get an ICE. As for the discussion about if I want to travel 500 miles I need to plan in 2x30 min breaks for the rapid (80%) capacity charge, thats just the afore mentioned behavioural change.
Offline FramerateUK  
#24 Posted : 19 February 2020 17:04:10(UTC)
FramerateUK


Posts: 352
Location: Cardiff

Originally Posted by: jamesev Go to Quoted Post
The thing that jumped out at me from Chris Harris' opening comments is the car fitting into your life or you fitting into the cars life. The future to avoid exponential climate change starts with behavioural changes. Whilst this might be an unpopular view since the 50s society has become very consumer orientated and it will be difficult to break from that. Modern Convenience (ModCon) was coined as we all want our lives to be made easier and easier however it seemed to come without a certain degree of responsibility that is now being realised. There was a good reason why Al Gore's film was titled "An Inconvenient Truth" and whatever views you have on the motive behind the film whether benevolent or designed to increase his own wealth the phrase still stand true.
.


Future generations will look back at this period and be stunned at how much rubbish we created and how throw away our society is/was.
Offline Marc_250  
#25 Posted : 19 February 2020 21:04:16(UTC)
Marc_250


Posts: 5,119

Originally Posted by: jamesev Go to Quoted Post
The thing that jumped out at me from Chris Harris' opening comments is the car fitting into your life or you fitting into the cars life. The future to avoid exponential climate change starts with behavioural changes. Whilst this might be an unpopular view since the 50s society has become very consumer orientated and it will be difficult to break from that. Modern Convenience (ModCon) was coined as we all want our lives to be made easier and easier however it seemed to come without a certain degree of responsibility that is now being realised. There was a good reason why Al Gore's film was titled "An Inconvenient Truth" and whatever views you have on the motive behind the film whether benevolent or designed to increase his own wealth the phrase still stand true.

There needs to be innovation and rapid innovation that will come at a cost in the automotive sector which at the moment motorist don't want to see or absorb, however I suspect what will happen will the cost will be equalised between ICE and EV by the increase in the cost of motoring with ICE, be that through annual tax or fuelling.

Its happening in companies with company cars where its now most cost effective to get a Model 3 due to tax breaks than to get an ICE. As for the discussion about if I want to travel 500 miles I need to plan in 2x30 min breaks for the rapid (80%) capacity charge, thats just the afore mentioned behavioural change.


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