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Offline Dynamique1976  
#1 Posted : 29 May 2013 18:13:43(UTC)
@F1Ranting


Posts: 529

950Kgs
Rear Engine / Rear Wheel Drive
900cc 3Cyl Turbo with 160BHP
Definite hint of Renault 5 about it

Looks quite smart.

Offline nick3814  
#2 Posted : 29 May 2013 18:40:18(UTC)
nick3814


Posts: 939

Auto express exclusive!!

Says it all really, pinch of salt!!
Offline Gazeratti  
#3 Posted : 29 May 2013 20:46:54(UTC)
Gazeratti


Posts: 8,668

can you read french LOL

UserPostedImage
Offline roystinho  
#4 Posted : 29 May 2013 20:54:33(UTC)
roystinho


Posts: 8,584

Heard about this ages ago on the grape vine. I was surprised when the twin run was a V6 as I thought it was going to be a 3cyl turbo.

Modern day R5 to take on MINI and 500? Would be great
Offline GrumpyTwig  
#5 Posted : 29 May 2013 22:25:18(UTC)
GrumpyTwig


Posts: 1,048

Renault are going to develop an engine with a specific output of 177bhp/litre ?!

Sorry but I hope there are some piglets somewhere manifesting feathery appendages from their haunches as we speak because that appears more likely than this happening.

A GT2 RS is 172bhp/L and you have to look at stuff like an Evo FQ400 to get beyond that at 203bhp/L so I just can't see it on the engine front.
Offline Black225  
#6 Posted : 29 May 2013 23:35:49(UTC)
Black225


Posts: 1,118
Location: On The Edge

I would think it's possible, bike 1000cc engines are now 190- 200bhp iirc. Make it small and it can rev, add a turbo to give it some torque. Mind you, I'm no engine tuner.LOL
Offline GrumpyTwig  
#7 Posted : 30 May 2013 00:02:41(UTC)
GrumpyTwig


Posts: 1,048

Originally Posted by: Black225 Go to Quoted Post
I would think it's possible, bike 1000cc engines are now 190- 200bhp iirc. Make it small and it can rev, add a turbo to give it some torque. Mind you, I'm no engine tuner.LOL


I had a 3 cylinder bike with a specific output of 154bhp/L, I recall the piston speeds were approaching F1 engine specs but the power was up at 12krpm.

I'm not sure I'd like to add forced induction to that equation!
Offline Dynamique1976  
#8 Posted : 30 May 2013 06:53:18(UTC)
@F1Ranting


Posts: 529

Originally Posted by: nick3814 Go to Quoted Post
Auto express exclusive!!

Says it all really, pinch of salt!!


Yes "Exclusive" ;)

Totally Exclusive to Auto Express except for every other car magazine running the same story! LOL

Offline foxspeed  
#9 Posted : 30 May 2013 09:09:36(UTC)
foxspeed


Posts: 21,608
Location: retour dans la bulle

Originally Posted by: GrumpyTwig Go to Quoted Post
Originally Posted by: Black225 Go to Quoted Post
I would think it's possible, bike 1000cc engines are now 190- 200bhp iirc. Make it small and it can rev, add a turbo to give it some torque. Mind you, I'm no engine tuner.LOL


I had a 3 cylinder bike with a specific output of 154bhp/L, I recall the piston speeds were approaching F1 engine specs but the power was up at 12krpm.

I'm not sure I'd like to add forced induction to that equation!


you can easily compare average piston speeds if you know the stroke of the engine and this will show that f1 engines
may rev high but the average piston speed isnt so far away from some road car engines...

ford ecoboost 3cylinder is putting out 112.5hp/ltr and has the capabilty to do 225hp/ltr...

bmw is rumoured to be using a 225hp 3cylinder 1.5 in the next mini cooper!
Offline Luke RUK  
#10 Posted : 30 May 2013 09:21:18(UTC)
Luke RUK


Posts: 1,349
Location: RUK HQ

Originally Posted by: foxspeed Go to Quoted Post
Originally Posted by: GrumpyTwig Go to Quoted Post
Originally Posted by: Black225 Go to Quoted Post
I would think it's possible, bike 1000cc engines are now 190- 200bhp iirc. Make it small and it can rev, add a turbo to give it some torque. Mind you, I'm no engine tuner.LOL


I had a 3 cylinder bike with a specific output of 154bhp/L, I recall the piston speeds were approaching F1 engine specs but the power was up at 12krpm.

I'm not sure I'd like to add forced induction to that equation!


you can easily compare average piston speeds if you know the stroke of the engine and this will show that f1 engines
may rev high but the average piston speed isnt so far away from some road car engines...

ford ecoboost 3cylinder is putting out 112.5hp/ltr and has the capabilty to do 225hp/ltr...

bmw is rumoured to be using a 225hp 3cylinder 1.5 in the next mini cooper!


I remember the below posted on another clubs website. I found it fascinating at the time (not that I understood much of it). Although a bit off topic, I thought some may find it interesting.

Matt@TDF wrote:

The F4R - Just like an F1 Engine

Well in one important respect anyway. I'm just finishing up an engine spec (silly AM finish again!!) and whilst glancing through my pistons speeds spreadsheet noticed something pretty interesting. We all know the F4R has a very long stroke at 93mm, indeed it's one of the longest performance I4 stroke engines that there is out there, what a lot of people don't twig is what effect this has on peak piston speeds. Piston speed is a pretty simple concept, it's the peak speed the piston reaches on it's way up or down the bore and it's one of the main limiting factors in how high you can make an engine rev.

A unamed current F1 engine that might be built in Northampton and be associated with a tin duck has a stroke of around 39.7mm (not taking rod stretch etc. into account). From the stroke and max RPM we can calculate the piston speed, in this case the engine revs to 18,000RPM giving a peak piston speed of 23.82 m/s

The F4R 730 has a stroke of 93mm and revs to 7200RPM out the box giving a piston speed of 22.32 m/s.. only a touch less than the F1 lump but (and it's a big but) in Clio Cup spec these engines rev'd to 7800RPM on standard bits, indeed we run standard engines at 7800RPM day in, day out and they still last several seasons of circuit racing (although we do recommend a set of ARP rod bolts for sustained use). Now at 7800RPM the peak piston speed rises to 24.18 m/s

24.18 m/s! Put simply a completely standard F4R that's had the laptop plugged into it has a higher peak piston speed than what's in the back of Williams F1 cars this season!!

Just thought that might be of interest to some For all the stick French built stuff gets it's a pretty good demonstration of how good the materials and component quality of the standard engine is! It's easily on a par with Hondas K20 engine for example.... and that doesn't even meet Euro 5 like the current 200 spec F4R

Offline foxspeed  
#11 Posted : 30 May 2013 09:40:41(UTC)
foxspeed


Posts: 21,608
Location: retour dans la bulle

23.82m/s = 53.28mph... for the f1

24.18m/s = 54.08mph for the f4r doing 7800rpm...

saves me putting up the average speed calculation Wink

a long stroke engine usually provides more torque than a short stroke engine
the f4r compares well against the honda k20 for torque output

Edited by user 30 May 2013 09:43:51(UTC)  | Reason: Not specified

User is suspended until 26/07/2046 21:23:17(UTC) Roblynn1977  
#12 Posted : 30 May 2013 11:27:25(UTC)
Roblynn1977


Posts: 5,657
Location: www.renaultsportclub.co.uk

Originally Posted by: foxspeed Go to Quoted Post
23.82m/s = 53.28mph... for the f1

24.18m/s = 54.08mph for the f4r doing 7800rpm...

saves me putting up the average speed calculation Wink

a long stroke engine usually provides more torque than a short stroke engine
the f4r compares well against the honda k20 for torque output


I bet I can find someone who would argue different ( cough ) Techno 172RS Dave LOL LOL
Offline Gazeratti  
#13 Posted : 09 June 2013 12:25:02(UTC)
Gazeratti


Posts: 8,668

Originally Posted by: foxspeed Go to Quoted Post
23.82m/s = 53.28mph... for the f1

24.18m/s = 54.08mph for the f4r doing 7800rpm...

saves me putting up the average speed calculation Wink

a long stroke engine usually provides more torque than a short stroke engine
the f4r compares well against the honda k20 for torque output


Far too technical for my tiny brain LOL
Offline WB83  
#14 Posted : 10 June 2013 11:17:03(UTC)
WB83


Posts: 3,041

Originally Posted by: Luke RUK Go to Quoted Post
Originally Posted by: foxspeed Go to Quoted Post
Originally Posted by: GrumpyTwig Go to Quoted Post
Originally Posted by: Black225 Go to Quoted Post
I would think it's possible, bike 1000cc engines are now 190- 200bhp iirc. Make it small and it can rev, add a turbo to give it some torque. Mind you, I'm no engine tuner.LOL


I had a 3 cylinder bike with a specific output of 154bhp/L, I recall the piston speeds were approaching F1 engine specs but the power was up at 12krpm.

I'm not sure I'd like to add forced induction to that equation!


you can easily compare average piston speeds if you know the stroke of the engine and this will show that f1 engines
may rev high but the average piston speed isnt so far away from some road car engines...

ford ecoboost 3cylinder is putting out 112.5hp/ltr and has the capabilty to do 225hp/ltr...

bmw is rumoured to be using a 225hp 3cylinder 1.5 in the next mini cooper!


I remember the below posted on another clubs website. I found it fascinating at the time (not that I understood much of it). Although a bit off topic, I thought some may find it interesting.

Matt@TDF wrote:

The F4R - Just like an F1 Engine

Well in one important respect anyway. I'm just finishing up an engine spec (silly AM finish again!!) and whilst glancing through my pistons speeds spreadsheet noticed something pretty interesting. We all know the F4R has a very long stroke at 93mm, indeed it's one of the longest performance I4 stroke engines that there is out there, what a lot of people don't twig is what effect this has on peak piston speeds. Piston speed is a pretty simple concept, it's the peak speed the piston reaches on it's way up or down the bore and it's one of the main limiting factors in how high you can make an engine rev.

A unamed current F1 engine that might be built in Northampton and be associated with a tin duck has a stroke of around 39.7mm (not taking rod stretch etc. into account). From the stroke and max RPM we can calculate the piston speed, in this case the engine revs to 18,000RPM giving a peak piston speed of 23.82 m/s

The F4R 730 has a stroke of 93mm and revs to 7200RPM out the box giving a piston speed of 22.32 m/s.. only a touch less than the F1 lump but (and it's a big but) in Clio Cup spec these engines rev'd to 7800RPM on standard bits, indeed we run standard engines at 7800RPM day in, day out and they still last several seasons of circuit racing (although we do recommend a set of ARP rod bolts for sustained use). Now at 7800RPM the peak piston speed rises to 24.18 m/s

24.18 m/s! Put simply a completely standard F4R that's had the laptop plugged into it has a higher peak piston speed than what's in the back of Williams F1 cars this season!!

Just thought that might be of interest to some For all the stick French built stuff gets it's a pretty good demonstration of how good the materials and component quality of the standard engine is! It's easily on a par with Hondas K20 engine for example.... and that doesn't even meet Euro 5 like the current 200 spec F4R



Fascinating stuff!
Offline foxspeed  
#15 Posted : 10 June 2013 11:32:45(UTC)
foxspeed


Posts: 21,608
Location: retour dans la bulle

dont forget at the top and bottom of the stroke the piston has to stop and then accelerate up to that speed...

an f1 engine piston goes up and down 300 times a second the clio 130 a second (at 7800rpm)

Edited by user 10 June 2013 11:36:26(UTC)  | Reason: Not specified

Offline CardiffCentral  
#16 Posted : 27 June 2013 00:50:29(UTC)
CardiffCentral


Posts: 151

So we now have confirmation from Carlos Ghosn that the next Twingo will be 5 door only and geared toward male drivers as well as female.

June 26, 2013 10:10 CET

Renault has high hopes for its new Twingo minicar, which will switch to a five-door layout in a move that may help the automaker win customers downsizing from larger vehicles.

Renault Chief Operating Officer Carlos Tavares believes the Twingo has "huge potential" to win conquest sales in Europe by targeting more male buyers.

"One of the messages we are conveying with this car is that we are able to address female and male customers with the same product," Tavares told Automotive News Europe.

The current Twingo, available only as a three-door, is largely bought by women customers, he said.

The third-generation Twingo will go on sale in the fourth quarter of next year. It will share a rear-wheel-drive platform with the new Smart ForFour as part of an alliance between Smart's parent, Daimler, and Renault-Nissan.

The Twingo will compete with cars such as the Fiat 500 and Opel/Vauxhall Adam by offering a similar level of personalization options. Renault design chief Laurens van den Acker said personalization "is much more successful than we thought it would be."

He said: "We all look with admiration at the success of the 500. The best cars have a double personality. They look feminine and masculine at the same time."

The rear-engine, rear-drive layout of the new Twingo will free more space for passengers. "With the engine in the rear you can shift the instrument panel forward and have a relatively large cabin for a short length," van den Acker said.

Upscale move

Switching the Twingo from front-wheel drive to rwd is part of a package of upscale features that Renault will add to the minicar.

IHS Automotive analyst Ian Fletcher said the five-door Twingo likely would help Renault to win customers switching to smaller models. "As some customers look to downsize, having five doors will probably help the decision-making process," he said.

The Twingo was the fourth best-selling minicar in Europe the first five months after the Fiat Panda at No. 1, the 500 held second place and the VW Up was No. 3, according to market researchers JATO Dynamics. The Twingo's five-month sales were 35,933 units, down from 45,294 the year before.

Read more: http://www.autonews.com/.../130629926#ixzz2XNCcggnu
Offline foxspeed  
#17 Posted : 27 June 2013 08:17:54(UTC)
foxspeed


Posts: 21,608
Location: retour dans la bulle

so 5drs is a bloke thing? really?

and the fiat 500 connection becomes clear now seeing that the design study actually looks like one
Offline Gazeratti  
#18 Posted : 27 June 2013 08:33:35(UTC)
Gazeratti


Posts: 8,668

Erm dont want 5 door, dont like the look of 5 door hatch backs never have, apart from the exception of the Lancia Delta Integrale. i must not be a man
Offline WB83  
#19 Posted : 27 June 2013 09:53:02(UTC)
WB83


Posts: 3,041

Small hatches don't need 5 doors and the Fiat 500 is the most effeminate cars ever made! (Pink Micra CC aside)
Offline Luke RUK  
#20 Posted : 27 June 2013 10:00:01(UTC)
Luke RUK


Posts: 1,349
Location: RUK HQ

It actually looks really good believe it or not.
Offline WB83  
#21 Posted : 27 June 2013 10:37:57(UTC)
WB83


Posts: 3,041

Originally Posted by: Luke RUK Go to Quoted Post
It actually looks really good believe it or not.


Any pics?

Offline DrDrew  
#22 Posted : 27 June 2013 10:40:45(UTC)
DrDrew


Posts: 349

Originally Posted by: Luke RUK Go to Quoted Post
It actually looks really good believe it or not.


Any chance of a sneak preview? Wink There has been a fair amount of excitement at the idea of a RWD twingo over on 133.net
Offline nick3814  
#23 Posted : 27 June 2013 10:51:07(UTC)
nick3814


Posts: 939

Glad I've ordered my RS133 now, not a fan of 5 doorsSad

Suspect it'll be designed like the Clio to hide the look of the rear doors!
Offline Luke RUK  
#24 Posted : 27 June 2013 11:06:53(UTC)
Luke RUK


Posts: 1,349
Location: RUK HQ

Unfortunately I don't have any pictures i'm afraid. I was shown it at a staff conference as part of a presentation.
Offline foxspeed  
#25 Posted : 27 June 2013 11:24:37(UTC)
foxspeed


Posts: 21,608
Location: retour dans la bulle

whats more worrying is "can a rear wheel drive/rear engine 5dr hatrchback be a success" and the market is awash with them at the moment!

not an ideal packaging solution for a small hatchback!!
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