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Offline Kirsty172  
#26 Posted : 23 May 2019 20:18:06(UTC)
Kirsty172


Posts: 4,943

Just to be clear,I'm not denying the record. What I am saying is that Renault have had to do a lot of extreme stuff to shave off less than 4 seconds. Maybe a bigger engine would have been a better approach.
Offline Penn  
#27 Posted : 23 May 2019 20:26:29(UTC)
Penn


Posts: 3,089

How quick would the 300 Trophy lap it with the back seats out and a remap?
Offline baigent  
#28 Posted : 23 May 2019 20:30:59(UTC)
baigent


Posts: 17

Originally Posted by: Kirsty172 Go to Quoted Post
They have thrown money at it, in the practical aspect that it's going to cost you 50k to own the same spec car that is the record setter. Any idea how much CF wheels cost...?

Perhaps Honda will beat it with some better tyres...


Maybe you misunderstand the point.

Renault selected existing components (brake kit, seats, wheels, suspension, exhaust) it didn't cost them anything to develop those parts.

As an end user, sure it will cost you. Renault however aren't trying to sell you a vehicle that differs from the spec that took the record, which Honda have and are still.

Maybe Honda should try some Japanese tyres.
Offline Marc_250  
#29 Posted : 23 May 2019 20:38:43(UTC)
Marc_250


Posts: 5,117

Originally Posted by: baigent Go to Quoted Post
Originally Posted by: Kirsty172 Go to Quoted Post
They have thrown money at it, in the practical aspect that it's going to cost you 50k to own the same spec car that is the record setter. Any idea how much CF wheels cost...?

Perhaps Honda will beat it with some better tyres...


Maybe you misunderstand the point.

Renault selected existing components (brake kit, seats, wheels, suspension, exhaust) it didn't cost them anything to develop those parts.

As an end user, sure it will cost you. Renault however aren't trying to sell you a vehicle that differs from the spec that took the record, which Honda have and are still.

Maybe Honda should try some Japanese tyres.


I assume it's almost a given that Honda did its times on Michelin Cup 2s but then blurred all that out due to commercial agreement with Conti?

Also do we know if Renault ditched the RWS on the -R? Might have cost a few quid to develop it out of the car.
Offline skny  
#30 Posted : 24 May 2019 07:54:53(UTC)
skny


Posts: 612

Originally Posted by: Marc_250 Go to Quoted Post
Originally Posted by: baigent Go to Quoted Post
Originally Posted by: Kirsty172 Go to Quoted Post
They have thrown money at it, in the practical aspect that it's going to cost you 50k to own the same spec car that is the record setter. Any idea how much CF wheels cost...?

Perhaps Honda will beat it with some better tyres...


Maybe you misunderstand the point.

Renault selected existing components (brake kit, seats, wheels, suspension, exhaust) it didn't cost them anything to develop those parts.

As an end user, sure it will cost you. Renault however aren't trying to sell you a vehicle that differs from the spec that took the record, which Honda have and are still.

Maybe Honda should try some Japanese tyres.


I assume it's almost a given that Honda did its times on Michelin Cup 2s but then blurred all that out due to commercial agreement with Conti?

Also do we know if Renault ditched the RWS on the -R? Might have cost a few quid to develop it out of the car.


Yes, the 4control unit is out, probably saves quite a bit of weight, but then proves how much sense there was putting it in in the first place... just for the sake of being the segment first I believe, anyway, for me, this is the most interesting part of the Trophy-R, as would it be possible to spec the car without it come ph2 time...
Offline vimto  
#31 Posted : 24 May 2019 08:13:25(UTC)
vimto


Posts: 52

Originally Posted by: skny Go to Quoted Post
Originally Posted by: Marc_250 Go to Quoted Post
Originally Posted by: baigent Go to Quoted Post
Originally Posted by: Kirsty172 Go to Quoted Post
They have thrown money at it, in the practical aspect that it's going to cost you 50k to own the same spec car that is the record setter. Any idea how much CF wheels cost...?

Perhaps Honda will beat it with some better tyres...


Maybe you misunderstand the point.

Renault selected existing components (brake kit, seats, wheels, suspension, exhaust) it didn't cost them anything to develop those parts.

As an end user, sure it will cost you. Renault however aren't trying to sell you a vehicle that differs from the spec that took the record, which Honda have and are still.

Maybe Honda should try some Japanese tyres.


I assume it's almost a given that Honda did its times on Michelin Cup 2s but then blurred all that out due to commercial agreement with Conti?

Also do we know if Renault ditched the RWS on the -R? Might have cost a few quid to develop it out of the car.


Yes, the 4control unit is out, probably saves quite a bit of weight, but then proves how much sense there was putting it in in the first place... just for the sake of being the segment first I believe, anyway, for me, this is the most interesting part of the Trophy-R, as would it be possible to spec the car without it come ph2 time...


The 4 control unit will still be part of the car, Its a excellent system and the gains far outweigh the weight penalty. do you think Renault would make such a big deal about it on the Std car only to remove it for the Trophy? porsche didnt for the GT2RS or GT3RS. BMW, Mercedes and Lamborghini are all rolling out cars with 4WS now on some of their models
Offline ray ban  
#32 Posted : 24 May 2019 13:26:25(UTC)
ray ban


Posts: 557

Originally Posted by: Kirsty172 Go to Quoted Post
They have thrown money at it, in the practical aspect that it's going to cost you 50k to own the same spec car that is the record setter. Any idea how much CF wheels cost...?

Perhaps Honda will beat it with some better tyres...


Here is a starting point for costs!Cry


https://www.performancea...lution-cr-9-carbon-fiber
Offline MrRS  
#33 Posted : 24 May 2019 13:36:47(UTC)
MrRS


Posts: 63

Originally Posted by: vimto Go to Quoted Post
Originally Posted by: skny Go to Quoted Post
Originally Posted by: Marc_250 Go to Quoted Post
Originally Posted by: baigent Go to Quoted Post
Originally Posted by: Kirsty172 Go to Quoted Post
They have thrown money at it, in the practical aspect that it's going to cost you 50k to own the same spec car that is the record setter. Any idea how much CF wheels cost...?

Perhaps Honda will beat it with some better tyres...


Maybe you misunderstand the point.

Renault selected existing components (brake kit, seats, wheels, suspension, exhaust) it didn't cost them anything to develop those parts.

As an end user, sure it will cost you. Renault however aren't trying to sell you a vehicle that differs from the spec that took the record, which Honda have and are still.

Maybe Honda should try some Japanese tyres.


I assume it's almost a given that Honda did its times on Michelin Cup 2s but then blurred all that out due to commercial agreement with Conti?

Also do we know if Renault ditched the RWS on the -R? Might have cost a few quid to develop it out of the car.


Yes, the 4control unit is out, probably saves quite a bit of weight, but then proves how much sense there was putting it in in the first place... just for the sake of being the segment first I believe, anyway, for me, this is the most interesting part of the Trophy-R, as would it be possible to spec the car without it come ph2 time...


The 4 control unit will still be part of the car, Its a excellent system and the gains far outweigh the weight penalty. do you think Renault would make such a big deal about it on the Std car only to remove it for the Trophy? porsche didnt for the GT2RS or GT3RS. BMW, Mercedes and Lamborghini are all rolling out cars with 4WS now on some of their models


If the gains from the 4WS outweighed the extra weight penalty they would have left it in.

Offline Kirsty172  
#34 Posted : 24 May 2019 14:27:53(UTC)
Kirsty172


Posts: 4,943

Hmm... Are folks really impressed with this if, it appears, they've had to resort to 18000 POUNDS FOR THE WHEELS?

Surprisingly, I think I'd buy the Trophy...
Offline vimto  
#35 Posted : 24 May 2019 15:26:30(UTC)
vimto


Posts: 52

Originally Posted by: MrRS Go to Quoted Post
Originally Posted by: vimto Go to Quoted Post
Originally Posted by: skny Go to Quoted Post
Originally Posted by: Marc_250 Go to Quoted Post
Originally Posted by: baigent Go to Quoted Post
Originally Posted by: Kirsty172 Go to Quoted Post
They have thrown money at it, in the practical aspect that it's going to cost you 50k to own the same spec car that is the record setter. Any idea how much CF wheels cost...?

Perhaps Honda will beat it with some better tyres...


Maybe you misunderstand the point.

Renault selected existing components (brake kit, seats, wheels, suspension, exhaust) it didn't cost them anything to develop those parts.

As an end user, sure it will cost you. Renault however aren't trying to sell you a vehicle that differs from the spec that took the record, which Honda have and are still.

Maybe Honda should try some Japanese tyres.


I assume it's almost a given that Honda did its times on Michelin Cup 2s but then blurred all that out due to commercial agreement with Conti?

Also do we know if Renault ditched the RWS on the -R? Might have cost a few quid to develop it out of the car.


Yes, the 4control unit is out, probably saves quite a bit of weight, but then proves how much sense there was putting it in in the first place... just for the sake of being the segment first I believe, anyway, for me, this is the most interesting part of the Trophy-R, as would it be possible to spec the car without it come ph2 time...


The 4 control unit will still be part of the car, Its a excellent system and the gains far outweigh the weight penalty. do you think Renault would make such a big deal about it on the Std car only to remove it for the Trophy? porsche didnt for the GT2RS or GT3RS. BMW, Mercedes and Lamborghini are all rolling out cars with 4WS now on some of their models


If the gains from the 4WS outweighed the extra weight penalty they would have left it in.


No were has been said that the ditched the 4ws.

all press releases are as follows. Ie from Evo
Mégane RS Trophy-R
JORDAN KATSIANIS21 MAY 2019
Image 1 of 4
Image 1 of 4
Renault Sport has got its front-wheel-drive record back with the new Trophy-R
FACEBOOK
TWITTER
GOOGLE+
EMAIL
Renault Sport has reclaimed its front-wheel-drive Nürburgring record with a new version of the Mégane RS Trophy. Called the Mégane RS Trophy-R, the new model has an identical powertrain, but has dropped over 130kg, and has usurped the Honda Civic Type R that held top spot, with a lap time of 7min 40.1sec – 3.7sec ahead of the time Honda achieved back in 2017.

The Trophy-R, as its name suggests, is a derivative of the already potent Mégane RS Trophy, sharing that car’s 1.8-litre turbocharged four-cylinder engine. Power outputs are an identical 297bhp, with a peak of 295lb ft of torque. The difference here is the considerable weight saving, and technical hardware and set-up changes to handle the massive loads taken on during a high-speed lap of the Nürburgring.

> Click here for our review of the Renault Megane RS Trophy

Renault Sport, in its typical style, has developed the Trophy-R with a variety of high-performance parts from auspicious suppliers. The new, even bigger brakes are from Brembo, a redesigned exhaust system has been supplied by Akrapovič, and Öhlins dampers are fitted – all very serious components befitting the Trophy-R’s core deliverables.


One obvious change is the new wheel and tyre package, comprising carbonfibre wheels wrapped in sticky Bridgestone rubber. Aside from looking more menacing than the standard alloy wheels, the dramatic loss of unsprung weight is another plus, and just the start of the considerable weight loss. As mentioned above, a total of 130kg has been lost in total, and although Renault Sport has yet to tell us where that weight loss has come from, we expect that a majority of it will be from the part-stripping of the interior and the fitting of new Sabelt bucket seats.

Outside, the Trophy-R loses the standard car’s LED fog lights, but gains a new carbonfibre bonnet complete with ventilation louvres and a new ram air scoop. We’ll have to wait till the end of June for more information regarding the specific technical changes, but for now be in no doubt that the already hardcore Mégane RS Trophy is about to get even more focused.


Offline baigent  
#36 Posted : 24 May 2019 17:46:04(UTC)
baigent


Posts: 17

Originally Posted by: Kirsty172 Go to Quoted Post
Hmm... Are folks really impressed with this if, it appears, they've had to resort to 18000 POUNDS FOR THE WHEELS?

Surprisingly, I think I'd buy the Trophy...


I'd say 7:40 for a FWD 1.8L 300hp hatchback is deeply impressive.

Regardless of the parts cost, it competes far beyond it's price bracket.

Now, before you start on about why didn't they just put a bigger engine in, why don't you look up the company that the Trophy-R keeps at 7:40.

Or how about a comparison with its larger displacement counterparts (I've even thrown the Focus RS in there just for you). All prices are list without options.

Mercedes A45 AMG - £42,000 - Lap time 8:10
BMW M2 Competition - £51,000 - Lap time 7:50
VW Golf R £32,000 - Lap time 8:14
Focus RS £32,000 - Lap time 8:06

Personally I think that £50K is very reasonable for a limited production run vehicle that will most likely be used as a track toy.

I think your choice is a sensible one, go with the Trophy, it's still lapping a least a second faster than the Civic Type-R in the tests I've seen.

Edited by user 24 May 2019 18:12:59(UTC)  | Reason: Not specified

Offline Kirsty172  
#37 Posted : 24 May 2019 19:15:34(UTC)
Kirsty172


Posts: 4,943

I expect you are very much mistaken. If the trophy beats the ctr by 1 second, why charge 18k on wheels alone to beat it by 4?
Offline baigent  
#38 Posted : 24 May 2019 19:24:26(UTC)
baigent


Posts: 17

Originally Posted by: Kirsty172 Go to Quoted Post
I expect you are very much mistaken. If the trophy beats the ctr by 1 second, why charge 18k on wheels alone to beat it by 4?


The Civic Type-R you can buy, not the one you can't.
Offline CraigI  
#39 Posted : 24 May 2019 20:42:37(UTC)
CraigI


Posts: 978

I’m actually surprised Honda’s previous record is recognised - I believe they can’t even sell the Type R with the tyres they used as they aren’t allowed to........roll cage, seats / infotainment / air con removed.
Renault will gain credibility by actually making the record car available to buy.

Edited by user 24 May 2019 20:44:03(UTC)  | Reason: Not specified

Offline Marc_250  
#40 Posted : 24 May 2019 22:51:43(UTC)
Marc_250


Posts: 5,117

Originally Posted by: baigent Go to Quoted Post
Originally Posted by: Kirsty172 Go to Quoted Post
Hmm... Are folks really impressed with this if, it appears, they've had to resort to 18000 POUNDS FOR THE WHEELS?

Surprisingly, I think I'd buy the Trophy...


I'd say 7:40 for a FWD 1.8L 300hp hatchback is deeply impressive.

Regardless of the parts cost, it competes far beyond it's price bracket.

Now, before you start on about why didn't they just put a bigger engine in, why don't you look up the company that the Trophy-R keeps at 7:40.

Or how about a comparison with its larger displacement counterparts (I've even thrown the Focus RS in there just for you). All prices are list without options.

Mercedes A45 AMG - £42,000 - Lap time 8:10
BMW M2 Competition - £51,000 - Lap time 7:50
VW Golf R £32,000 - Lap time 8:14
Focus RS £32,000 - Lap time 8:06

Personally I think that £50K is very reasonable for a limited production run vehicle that will most likely be used as a track toy.

I think your choice is a sensible one, go with the Trophy, it's still lapping a least a second faster than the Civic Type-R in the tests I've seen.


Some interesting comparisons and we don't know it'll be 50k yet. However you are comparing it to 4/5 seater cars that aren't 'track toys'. And if we come back to 'real world' on road performance would this car even see which way a M2 Comp had gone? - On certain road yes, others no.

So yea watching the video I do like what I see, but am I impressed? Not really if it's 50k but at least it's real which you can't say for Honda.
Offline Theos  
#41 Posted : 25 May 2019 05:46:39(UTC)
Giacomo


Posts: 172

Originally Posted by: CraigI Go to Quoted Post
I’m actually surprised Honda’s previous record is recognised - I believe they can’t even sell the Type R with the tyres they used as they aren’t allowed to........roll cage, seats / infotainment / air con removed.
Renault will gain credibility by actually making the record car available to buy.


^this.
Offline JMT  
#42 Posted : 25 May 2019 12:33:25(UTC)
JMT


Posts: 222

Has anyone spoke to a dealer ref one?
I haven't got round to it yet but plan to.

Having had an R26R and 275 trophy-R brand new I feel I think it would be rude of me to not with this one lol.

Interested to see what the prices and options will be 🤦‍♂️
Offline baigent  
#43 Posted : 25 May 2019 19:31:40(UTC)
baigent


Posts: 17

Originally Posted by: Marc_250 Go to Quoted Post
Originally Posted by: baigent Go to Quoted Post
Originally Posted by: Kirsty172 Go to Quoted Post
Hmm... Are folks really impressed with this if, it appears, they've had to resort to 18000 POUNDS FOR THE WHEELS?

Surprisingly, I think I'd buy the Trophy...


I'd say 7:40 for a FWD 1.8L 300hp hatchback is deeply impressive.

Regardless of the parts cost, it competes far beyond it's price bracket.

Now, before you start on about why didn't they just put a bigger engine in, why don't you look up the company that the Trophy-R keeps at 7:40.

Or how about a comparison with its larger displacement counterparts (I've even thrown the Focus RS in there just for you). All prices are list without options.

Mercedes A45 AMG - £42,000 - Lap time 8:10
BMW M2 Competition - £51,000 - Lap time 7:50
VW Golf R £32,000 - Lap time 8:14
Focus RS £32,000 - Lap time 8:06

Personally I think that £50K is very reasonable for a limited production run vehicle that will most likely be used as a track toy.

I think your choice is a sensible one, go with the Trophy, it's still lapping a least a second faster than the Civic Type-R in the tests I've seen.


Some interesting comparisons and we don't know it'll be 50k yet. However you are comparing it to 4/5 seater cars that aren't 'track toys'. And if we come back to 'real world' on road performance would this car even see which way a M2 Comp had gone? - On certain road yes, others no.

So yea watching the video I do like what I see, but am I impressed? Not really if it's 50k but at least it's real which you can't say for Honda.


I think it's fair to say it will be best part of £50K with all the options. It doesn't take a genius to work out the previous Trophy-R's price, compare it to the current offering and add in the new carbon elements.

Not sure why you think they are interesting comparisons, you've also taken my post out of context but sure, I'll indulge you. Apart from the M2 they are all hot hatchbacks, all of their respective manufacturers use images and video of the cars running on race tracks to sell them (BMW also does this). I think it's more than likely you'd need to convince the owners of these vehicles that they aren't track ready cars, they been sold them as such.

The Megane is a 5 door 4/5 seat hot hatch and absolutely fits in to this group, yes Renault has reduced the weight to achieve the FWD lap, but it's not a purpose built track racer and there's nothing stopping any of the these manufacturers from doing the same thing (VW gave it a go, twice if you include the SEAT).

If price is the issue, and why wouldn't it be, I'm almost certain the standard Trophy laps the Nurgburgring faster than all the above, other than the M2.

I think you've overstated the M2's performance here (maybe you have a soft spot for it?) and also added in the drivers ability. I'm interested though, on which roads does the M2 lose the Trophy so easily?

Edited by user 25 May 2019 21:18:44(UTC)  | Reason: Not specified

Offline Marc_250  
#44 Posted : 25 May 2019 21:37:03(UTC)
Marc_250


Posts: 5,117

Originally Posted by: baigent Go to Quoted Post
Originally Posted by: Marc_250 Go to Quoted Post
Originally Posted by: baigent Go to Quoted Post
Originally Posted by: Kirsty172 Go to Quoted Post
Hmm... Are folks really impressed with this if, it appears, they've had to resort to 18000 POUNDS FOR THE WHEELS?

Surprisingly, I think I'd buy the Trophy...


I'd say 7:40 for a FWD 1.8L 300hp hatchback is deeply impressive.

Regardless of the parts cost, it competes far beyond it's price bracket.

Now, before you start on about why didn't they just put a bigger engine in, why don't you look up the company that the Trophy-R keeps at 7:40.

Or how about a comparison with its larger displacement counterparts (I've even thrown the Focus RS in there just for you). All prices are list without options.

Mercedes A45 AMG - £42,000 - Lap time 8:10
BMW M2 Competition - £51,000 - Lap time 7:50
VW Golf R £32,000 - Lap time 8:14
Focus RS £32,000 - Lap time 8:06

Personally I think that £50K is very reasonable for a limited production run vehicle that will most likely be used as a track toy.

I think your choice is a sensible one, go with the Trophy, it's still lapping a least a second faster than the Civic Type-R in the tests I've seen.


Some interesting comparisons and we don't know it'll be 50k yet. However you are comparing it to 4/5 seater cars that aren't 'track toys'. And if we come back to 'real world' on road performance would this car even see which way a M2 Comp had gone? - On certain road yes, others no.

So yea watching the video I do like what I see, but am I impressed? Not really if it's 50k but at least it's real which you can't say for Honda.


I think it's fair to say it will be best part of £50K with all the options. It doesn't take a genius to work out the previous Trophy-R's price, compare it to the current offering and add in the new carbon elements.

Not sure why you think they are interesting comparisons, you've also taken my post out of context but sure, I'll indulge you. Apart from the M2 they are all hot hatchbacks, all of their respective manufacturers use images and video of the cars running on race tracks to sell them (BMW also does this). I think it's more than likely you'd need to convince the owners of these vehicles that they aren't track ready cars, they been sold them as such.

The Megane is a 5 door 4/5 seat hot hatch and absolutely fits in to this group, yes Renault has reduced the weight to achieve the FWD lap, but it's not a purpose built track racer and there's nothing stopping any of the these manufacturers from doing the same thing (VW gave it a go, twice if you include the SEAT).

If price is the issue, and why wouldn't it be, I'm almost certain the standard Trophy laps the Nurgburgring faster than all the above, other than the M2.

I think you've overstated the M2's performance here (maybe you have a soft spot for it?) and also added in the drivers ability. I'm interested though, on which roads does the M2 lose the Trophy so easily?


I kinda thought they were interesting because you picked x3 4 seater not really focused 4wd hatches + x1 rwd coupe to compare to a stripped out 2 seater fwd hatch. Two of those been massively cheaper than the likely price of this car.

The roads where I would expect an M2 to probably leave a Trophy in real world driving conditions? I dunno ones with straight bits?
Offline del115  
#45 Posted : 26 May 2019 09:05:35(UTC)
del115


Posts: 1,402
Location: West Wales

Originally Posted by: JMT Go to Quoted Post
Has anyone spoke to a dealer ref one?
I haven't got round to it yet but plan to.

Having had an R26R and 275 trophy-R brand new I feel I think it would be rude of me to not with this one lol.

Interested to see what the prices and options will be 🤦‍♂️


I received an email from social-rs@Renault.com with a LINK to the www.renaltsoprt.com web page.
There you can register to receive 'Exclusive' information and/or your interest in ordering one.

I would doubt dealers have any more info, indeed very few have any knowledge of the current RS Megane models.
Offline jkp  
#46 Posted : 26 May 2019 10:11:16(UTC)
jkp


Posts: 41

Got some info back from dealer yesterday...

​​​​​​Technical data to be released from - 4/7/19
Prices announced and orders open - August 2019
Production starts - September 2019
First delivery's from - October 2019


Mentions you 'have' to register interest via the website, which i have done

Price and basic spec dependant I may be looking to change my order from my Trophy.
Offline MrRS  
#47 Posted : 26 May 2019 12:30:22(UTC)
MrRS


Posts: 63

Looks like Honda are also getting their new improved Type R in shape.

https://uk.motor1.com/ne...onda-civic-type-r-video/
Offline Kirsty172  
#48 Posted : 29 May 2019 22:20:39(UTC)
Kirsty172


Posts: 4,943

Originally Posted by: baigent Go to Quoted Post
Originally Posted by: Kirsty172 Go to Quoted Post
I expect you are very much mistaken. If the trophy beats the ctr by 1 second, why charge 18k on wheels alone to beat it by 4?


The Civic Type-R you can buy, not the one you can't.


not that old chestnut. does anyone even care? are you only going to buy this car because it is the fastest around 1 particular circuit for a few months? i don't think that's a credible selection criterion for spending so much cash on a compromised car.

review the motoring press. i think pretty much without exception the ctr is rated the best hot hatch you can buy.

for 50k, i'd be buying something much more special i think - at least the m2 noted below is something that perhaps, maybe, seems more realistic for that price. otherwise, i'd consider spending a still far too expensive 30k on a hot hatch. then choose either the trophy, if you can find one discounted in a few months time from a sensible renault dealer (if you can find one) or a ctr. or even better, perhaps the i30n (pre reg) for half of the 50k.
Offline davbar82  
#49 Posted : 30 May 2019 22:56:03(UTC)
davbar82


Posts: 12

Anyone know if those carbon wheels are 18" or 19"?
Offline skny  
#50 Posted : 31 May 2019 06:47:53(UTC)
skny


Posts: 612

The Carbon wheels are 19 inch, see pic below,

Also adding to the no 4control argument, all the development pictures show no steer of the rear axle, car was photographed at the roundabout near the ring a few times, its definitely out, all the french forums confirm, somehow its not comfortable for RS to confirm the key handling pack element of the standard Megane RS is out to get the best out of the chassis,

Take a look at the pictures, no 4control badge on any of the Trophy-R cars at Monaco GP, or was it the badge is too heavy ?

UserPostedImage

19 inch carbon rims

no 4control badge
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